Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 30-04-2015, 09:10   #16
Moderator
 
sailorchic34's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Boat: Islander 34
Posts: 4,812
Re: Standing Rigging-should I be worried?

Hum, I'm going to go out on a limb and say they don't look that bad. Clean polish the rust off and look for swelling and or cracking in the swage. Both are signs it's past time to replace. I think it's just 302 or maybe 304 SS.

Corrosion in the swage will look like a deformation swelling of the swage or a hairline crack that can't be polished out.
__________________

__________________
sailorchic34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2015, 09:17   #17
Registered User
 
leftbrainstuff's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Francisco and Australia
Boat: Liberty 458
Posts: 1,978
Re: Standing Rigging-should I be worried?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bill View Post
Would it change your opinion any If I told you that this was 316 stainless steel rigging purchased new and installed in November of 2014? This rigging was purchased from a highly recommended rigging shop. It been in the Bahamas for almost 3 months.
Unfortunately its age or where it came from is no guarantee of its integrity. The visible signs of corrosion are giving you fair warning that something is not right.

Question 1. I'd be asking the rigging shop for lot, batch and material spec of the wire. This needs to occur before assembly. Now there is no way to verify its provenance.

The second question relates to the rigging swaging equipment. Was it used on non stainless work before yours. Was their grinding in the swaging shop? Stainless, 3xx grade, only works well when its clean and is not subjected to stagnant or dirty water.

Question 3. Where were the swage ends sourced from? There is a lot of architectural junk on the market these days. We switched to all staloks. No swaged fittings. This allows me to build my own rigging and we can rebuild if we have any issues with wire.

Question 4. Did the rigger use any elastomer or bees wax in the swaged joint. Keeping the moisture out is key to longevity for swaged connections exposed to sea water.

Do you wash your rigging? Brake dust and industrial pollution can sometimes exacerbate this problem in wet or humid areas. Typically you will also see pitting of your paintwork and brightwork.

Are the upper swages the same? I'd clean and polish all swages and keep an eye on them first. If there is an issue you'll see evidence in a week or two.


Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________

__________________
leftbrainstuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2015, 09:19   #18
Registered User
 
TacomaSailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Burnt Store Marina, SW Florida
Boat: Caliber 40
Posts: 1,148
Re: Standing Rigging-should I be worried?

My rigging looked similar (attached photos) when it was 18-years old with a lot of tropical sailing miles. I hired two riggers from a very well known local shop to inspect the mast and standing rigging.

They spent two hours cleaning, polishing, and examining the swages, wires, turnbuckles, etc. and at the end pronounced it all darn near perfect.

I know nothing about your situation but I was impressed with how misleading the rust and apparent corrosion is for the untrained eye.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Port inner aft shroud small.jpg
Views:	188
Size:	428.9 KB
ID:	101212   Click image for larger version

Name:	Starboard Fwd Chainplate Attachment small.jpg
Views:	186
Size:	427.5 KB
ID:	101213  

__________________
TacomaSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2015, 09:42   #19
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Hailing Minny, MN
Boat: Vancouver 27
Posts: 751
Images: 1
Re: Standing Rigging-should I be worried?

The actual wire in your pics looks pretty clean still, yes?..Perhaps the rigger used a contaminated grinder or polishing wheel at the base of the wires / swages? I just had my rigging replaced and the rigger had to grind out the t-fittings slightly to fit them into metric mast compression holes.

They rusted quite quickly in the yard even after I polished them multiple times. I eventually ground them down more with a clean grinding wheel and then polished the hell out of them with rouge on an air compressor wheel. Even so, there are little areas of rust again a month later where I wasn't aggressive enough in removing all the contaminated material.
__________________
laika is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2015, 09:46   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Jupiter FL
Boat: temporarily boatless...
Posts: 723
Re: Standing Rigging-should I be worried?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bill View Post
The sad part is that the rigging I replaced didn't have a mark on it. It was 14 years old and I replaced it out of caution due only to age.
About 20 years ago I had a boss who gave me the best advice of my life, and virtually every time I have ignored it it has come back to haunt me. The advice was "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

I know this doesn't help much after the fact, but maybe it might be useful in the future!

Sorry to see that level of corrosion. I don't believe that standards for stainless steel types are very well enforced, especially by specialty manufacturers.

Pete
__________________
pete33458 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2015, 09:54   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Blue Mountain Ont
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 400 40 ft "Camp David
Posts: 401
Re: Standing Rigging-should I be worried?

I would be interested in knowing the manufacturer of the fittings and wire. KOSS is giod wire and Navtec SC Johnson Hayn are all 316 and good stuff . I am told Suncor is not 316 but 304. Blue Wave is also reported to be good


Lots of troubles witb Chinese wire I am told

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
CampDavid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2015, 10:02   #22
Senior Cruiser
 
Captain Bill's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On the boat
Boat: Endeavourcat Sailcat 44
Posts: 2,313
Re: Standing Rigging-should I be worried?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff View Post
Unfortunately its age or where it came from is no guarantee of its integrity. The visible signs of corrosion are giving you fair warning that something is not right.

Question 1. I'd be asking the rigging shop for lot, batch and material spec of the wire. This needs to occur before assembly. Now there is no way to verify its provenance.

The second question relates to the rigging swaging equipment. Was it used on non stainless work before yours. Was their grinding in the swaging shop? Stainless, 3xx grade, only works well when its clean and is not subjected to stagnant or dirty water.

Question 3. Where were the swage ends sourced from? There is a lot of architectural junk on the market these days. We switched to all staloks. No swaged fittings. This allows me to build my own rigging and we can rebuild if we have any issues with wire.

Question 4. Did the rigger use any elastomer or bees wax in the swaged joint. Keeping the moisture out is key to longevity for swaged connections exposed to sea water.

Do you wash your rigging? Brake dust and industrial pollution can sometimes exacerbate this problem in wet or humid areas. Typically you will also see pitting of your paintwork and brightwork.

Are the upper swages the same? I'd clean and polish all swages and keep an eye on them first. If there is an issue you'll see evidence in a week or two.


Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
I put the rigging on in NC and spent a couple of weeks getting down to Florida mostly off shore but a little in the ICW. We've been in the Bahamas for 3 months. There hasn't been an opportunity to acquire much pollution.

I think the elastomer question is the key here. Once I started cleaning them I found all of the corrosion is occurring under what ever elastomer (sealant) they used. I even think that the light candy striping I'm seeing is actually from rust running down from the upper fittings. As best I can see with binoculars they are just as rusted as the lower fittings. We're having thunderstorms here today so I won't be going up to check today. I've sent a follow-up email to the vendor asking what they used and how to remove it. I was able to pick most of it off with fine tweezers but there's still a bit left between the strands and deep in the joint. If it's causing the corrosion, I want it off my rigging and I consider what I'm seeing as enough evidence.
__________________
Captain Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2015, 10:10   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 396
Re: Standing Rigging-should I be worried?

the wire is deteriorating from inside the swedge and could fail at any time
__________________
bsurvey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2015, 10:17   #24
RDW
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Lexington, Kentucky
Boat: Morris 1996 46' Lexington
Posts: 378
Re: Standing Rigging-should I be worried?

It makes you wonder. I wonder if a costly inspection proving your rigging was good might be better. This is against all I hear but my rigging looks excellent and I have done dye test but I am probably going to replace the rigging just due to age.
rdw
__________________
RDW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2015, 10:27   #25
Senior Cruiser
 
RolfP's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Pensacola and Minnesota
Boat: 1982 Morgan 383
Posts: 202
Images: 1
Re: Standing Rigging-should I be worried?

I am so unhappy to read this thread. My standing rigging is 32 years old, always in fresh water, used 6 months a year, but I'm replacing it all this summer. What can I do to ensure I get a Rig without issues?
__________________
RolfP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2015, 10:35   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Dana Point, Ca
Boat: Hunter335
Posts: 16
Re: Standing Rigging-should I be worried?

What is "candy stripping"? I can guess, but.....
__________________
randoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2015, 10:39   #27
Registered User
 
NahanniV's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: On the Boat
Boat: Finnsailer 38
Posts: 1,143
Re: Standing Rigging-should I be worried?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RolfP View Post
I am so unhappy to read this thread. My standing rigging is 32 years old, always in fresh water, used 6 months a year, but I'm replacing it all this summer. What can I do to ensure I get a Rig without issues?
Buy from a trusted supplier.

I purchased wire and mechanical terminals from Rigging only on advice from others on this board; The service and support was excellent.

From their website:

Quote:
At Rigging Only our yacht and sail boat rigging wire is the highest quality wire available. The standing rigging 1x19 wire rope is type 316 stainless steel, strand polished, and every spool has an actual pull test certification as well as chemical analysis. We stock 1x19 wire from 3/32 wire to 5/8 diameter wire and metric wire diameters from 4mm through 16mm rigging wire.
WIRE ROPE 1 x 19 Stainless Wire, Type 316 Extra Corrosion-Resistant Stainless Steel at Rigging and Hardware .com

I think in cold freshwater areas there is not as much of a problem with corrosion; Subsequently local distributors can get away with selling stuff that would never cut-it in a warmer saltwater area. So, my advice would be don't buy local if you are planning to take the boat south.

Cheers,
JM.
__________________
NahanniV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2015, 10:42   #28
Registered User
 
NahanniV's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: On the Boat
Boat: Finnsailer 38
Posts: 1,143
Re: Standing Rigging-should I be worried?

Quote:
Originally Posted by randoo View Post
What is "candy stripping"? I can guess, but.....
One rusty (discolored) strand in a wire rope.
__________________
NahanniV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2015, 10:49   #29
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Dana Point, Ca
Boat: Hunter335
Posts: 16
Re: Standing Rigging-should I be worried?

There has been counterfeit stainless steel, grade 8 bolts, huck bolts and other products leaking into the market, marine, aerospace and others for quite a few years. I don't know what a consumer can do except demand replacement. China is not the only counterfeiter, Russia has been a bad boy, too.

If interested, Google counterfeit grade 8 bolts and fasteners that started appearing in the aerospace industry. scary

The root cause/source of the problem has been distributors selling the counterfeit products as "to spec" to small manufactures.

If I bought new rigging and mine corroded this way, I would challenge the seller. Your rigging is corroding. Spec SS does not corrode this quickly. Be sure it is not "spilled coffee", dirt, etc. then go back to your source and demand replacement.

My thoughts...you should be a real p....k with your seller. He REALLY doesn't want the word on the waterfront that he sells counterfeit goods and won't replace them. Muy malo! If he is legit, he will do whats right.

good luck
__________________
randoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2015, 10:53   #30
Senior Cruiser
 
Captain Bill's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On the boat
Boat: Endeavourcat Sailcat 44
Posts: 2,313
Re: Standing Rigging-should I be worried?

The company I bought the rigging from has been very responsive today. They think that based on the same information I've shared here that the rust is running down the wire and getting under the sealant which they have told me is boatlife that they've been using for 30 years without a problem. So now the question is is it rust running down the wire and collecting under the sealant or is it in place corrosion. They suspect possible contamination at the boatyard by contact with the ground. I replaced 7 wires and will admit that two of them touched the ground during the installation but 5 did not. The ones that did are the two upper shrouds and being the longest were the most difficult to control. The box of cables stayed in the bed of my pickup until we were ready to install them, mostly because the GD box weighed so much I didn't want to carry it again. It's thunderstorming here today so I'm not climbing the mast to take a close look at the upper fittings, but through binoculars they look like they have the same dark rust ring that the lowers have. I might buy stuff running down the cables, but up the cables? In any case when the weather clears I'll make a close inspection and have some photos of the upper fittings.
__________________

__________________
Captain Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
rigging

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Should standing rigging be regularly renewed ? laurie42 Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 16 12-02-2012 07:19
What Standing Rigging Should I Use ??? Haventaclue Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 2 22-05-2011 10:31
Re: Rigging, Compression Fittings for Standing Rigging Maineiac_sailor Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 2 26-01-2011 08:30
Should I Be Worried ? g0twind Construction, Maintenance & Refit 5 22-10-2010 13:34
Time Magazine Article - Titled:Be Worried, Be Very Worried CaptainK Polar Regions 12 27-03-2006 00:46



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:46.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.