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Old 01-04-2013, 10:30   #31
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Boat: Aries 32
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Re: standing rigging replacement

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra View Post
Unfounded is correct. What maintenance would you be performing?
I hear the stuff creeps, and is especially prone to chafe eg, as it comes over the spreaders.

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra View Post
"has to be"? Do you have evidence to support this claim? I have no creep but I used dux. If you don't use dux then you need more adjustment for tightening.
And here's the problem with "researching" synthetic: There are no available data, only strongly-biased opinions.

"Synthetic is crap!"

"I have no creep!"

Both are useless statements, with no context or quantification. Do you have no creep because you've used 6" rigging on your 10' boat, or because you never tensioned it properly in the first place, or did the stuff actually work for you in some way that might be comparable to other boats and systems? If you are trying to be helpful, publishing the details of say, what size of rigging, what size of boat, install date and methodology, current condition, and precisely what you've done between install and now would be exceedingly useful. Anecdotes are not.

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra View Post
I think dyneema will last longer than stainless. I bet people thought steel would last longer than the first fiberglass boats.
There exist lots of steel boats older than any fiberglass boat. Are you suggesting that I can draw some sort of conclusion from those data, or might I need a bit more context?

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra View Post
As for the terminators costing more. I used regular bronze turnbuckles that cost $10 each (they are 1/2" with 12,000lbs strength) so I could use regular stainless heavy duty thimbles (2 for each stay) If you use metal cable you still need turnbuckles, so the only added cost was the thimbles plus I also needed a shackle to attach each stay to the tang on the mast.
If I'm going to rope rigging, it's not going to include turnbuckles.

(Colligo seems to be moving away from recommending user-installed deadeyes and towards professional-built, pre-tensioned rigs using turnbuckles. I have no idea if that's evidence that Dyneema isn't as user-friendly as one would hope, or that it's being used on bigger, higher-performance boats, or something else.)

I don't have tangs on my mast. I found some sort of adapter - from Colligo, I think - but buying them was something like half the cost I paid for everything in stainless, and was a pretty wonky setup with lots of parts bolted and slipped together. Adding tangs would have made more sense, but that means taking the mast down, removing my sockets, and buying and installing lots of new hardware.

If I had clear evidence that dyneema would otherwise work for me, I might have gone there. As an experiment, combined with all the other uncertainties, it was more than I was willing to bite off.

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra View Post
If you want to save even more money, however, you can just use a little more dyneema and lash it between the two thimbles (3 or 4 times around) and tie it off and it's adjustable instead of a turnbuckle.
Everything I read said that would not work, and that I needed deadeyes both to protect the line and to get proper tension. I've done exactly what you suggest on my lifelines. Is there some size or tension above which deadeyes become necessary?

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra View Post
Even cheaper and better still is to carve some really hard wood (like lignum vitae) or possibly delrin and drill 3 holes then carve them out and make the deadeyes needed. I don't think this would be too difficult and you could achieve a much higher strength than the commercial terminators by making them larger and thicker so the dyneema line goes around a much wider turn radius (5:1 of diameter minimum or 8:1 or higher preferred)
Are you suggesting that "carving" deadeyes and becoming a product tester is less work than installing stainless rigging? I know hardwood has a long history, but not on something the diameter of spectra under the tension of modern rigs. Delrin - who knows? I think Colligo probably got it right with anodized aluminum - but at ~60 for each end of every wire on my boat, that gets expensive fast. (And I still end up with stainless in my furler.)

Don't get me wrong - I still absolutely love the idea of synthetic rigging, especially after building my lifelines, and I'll consider it the next time I need to rig, I just couldn't sort through the usually-unsupported information out there enough to tell if it was right for me on my boat. I suspect I'm very much not alone in that, and that more-than-anecdotal information would be exceedingly useful to lots of folks, perhaps including OP.

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