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Old 04-02-2013, 16:40   #16
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Re: Standing Rigging Replacement

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See if we can spend some more of DH's hard earned cash. Is there a VHF antenna on top of this mast by chance? and how old would that be? and the coax; a 75 foot length hanging down inside supporting its own weight for 13 years. Hmm, lot of sucking of teeth
All right, all right -- there's a separate thread on this.

The tricolour/anchor light is being replaced. New ultrasonic wind instrument. Mouse lines put in everywhere just in case . New separate AIS antenna on the first spreader (near the new Wifi and mobile antennae, and the forward-looking infrared camera . .. ).

But after some consultation decided not to touch the VHF antenna/windex, which functions perfectly. It goes in a conduit so doesn't slap around much. Hope it's the right decision . . . .
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Old 04-02-2013, 16:47   #17
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Re: Standing Rigging Replacement

You'll know the answer to that when you re-connect the coax... Should have replaced mine... but then, just about everything on ours needs replacing!
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Old 04-02-2013, 17:17   #18
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Re: Standing Rigging Replacement

New deck light would be nice. Get the led ones.
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Old 04-02-2013, 17:17   #19
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Re: Standing Rigging Replacement

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$5k for a rig check?! Wow -- query whether it's not more cost effective to just replace it constantly . . .
Was a lot more expensive -is composite rigging....included in that was replacement of dyneema lashings...all standing rigging taken off and load tested, rod diamonds dye crack tested and replaced...although sounds expensive (and was) is extremely cheap compared to losing a rig...and gives you peace of mind for a few more years...
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Old 04-02-2013, 17:23   #20
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Re: Standing Rigging Replacement

I faced the same exact decision of replacing the standing rigging this last week. I had the mast pulled to replace the wiring and VHF antenna. When we got the mast down everything was exammined closely, we found a couple of tinny cracks in a truck crane and a backing plate and the rigging was 18 years old so I had everything replaced. I would have saved a couple thousand by not replacing the wire. It looked good but it was time. By the way I had my rigging replaced by SSMR in St Pete, they did a fantastic job at a great price with absolutely no pressure to replace, I am the one who wanted it.
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Old 04-02-2013, 18:56   #21
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Re: Standing Rigging Replacement

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Absolutely. This summer will be either Iceland or the Baltic all the way to Finland. But come on -- you sound just like the riggers.

Actually, the riggers sounded worse, the devils. They said that a boat sitting in a marina (like my boat lived before I bought her) is even harder on her rigging than a boat which is being sailed for tens of thousands of miles -- cyclic loads and all that.

Damn it, I just know I'm being conned, but I can't find a way out of it. And you're not helping, Pete!
I have hangliders that are 20 yrs old and I fly them at Jockeys Ridge in Nags Head NC every yr.at the Spectacular..They have positive side wires that are made from the same wire and Nicopresses that are used on sailboats and I have never had a problem with them,if I was to send the glider for an inspection they would tell me to change the wires(negetive and positive)...My boat has the original standing rigging and it is from 1974,I was sailing yesterday and the wind was blowing hard and I had no problem,I even laid on them hard and jerked them back and forth and they hold fine..I wouldnt change them unless I saw meat hooks or a big kink in them..they dont change the rigging on the big bridges that have been around for 100+ yrs..Of course the rigging guy is going to tell you to change them ,he likes to eat and make car payments,have heard it said on CF many times ,"if it aint broke"...take some wire,nicos and a swag tool with you in case of an emergency,probable that they wont get used!...
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Old 04-02-2013, 19:51   #22
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Re: Standing Rigging Replacement

Riggers have their 10 year guide.

Jewelers have the their 3-month guide. Apparently a groom should spend 3 months salary on the engagement ring.

Bla bla bla, we say. No wedding, no ring, no honeymoon, let's buy a boat, babe, and go cruising.

Replace the rig because of some 10-year rule set by the people who want to make money from us? No way. Better to check it out by going up the mast with a magnifying glass and keeping an eye on it all, no hard racing, reef early, etc.

But, DH, you are going well up north, so that changes the risk analysis a little. Ultimately it depends on how comfortable you feel with that risk after a good rig inspection and how deep your pockets are!
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Old 04-02-2013, 20:32   #23
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Re: Standing Rigging Replacement

Hi, guys,

I'm a really conservative old woman, but you know, back in '96 when our first Insatiable was dismasted, it was about $30k to replace the mast, winches running and standing rigging, and the rest of the stuff that goes in the mast and the lights, etc. It's bound to be a lot more now, and DH's mast is a lot taller than ours, too, thus adding to the cost.

The seas DH is planning to sail, are basically cold places, and a fallen down mast may cause injury. So imagine someone important to the running of the boat is hurt, and there's all this wire everywhere, and mast bits. He'd be lucky to have a stump of the mast left that is suitable for a jury rig. Where he's going is isolated, services few and far between, and possibly run by folks whose language is not his. The mastless boat is rolling about madly, as they do. This is beginning to not sound like a fun cruise...

If you prefer to stack the odds on your side, then replace the wire. It's not exactly "cheap", but it IS insurance of a kiind. And carry a hydraulic wire cutter for it. You're not going to be using an electric angle grinder long in breaking seas. The mast may be lying against the hull, moving up and down with the swell, like a cutting chain, and you desperate to be rid of it.

Just an opinion, and everybody's got one!

Ann Cate, asv Insatiable II, lying Hobart, TAS
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Old 04-02-2013, 20:36   #24
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Re: Standing Rigging Replacement

[QUOTE=tropicalescape;1148345].My boat has the original standing rigging and it is from 1974,I was sailing yesterday and the wind was blowing hard and I had no problem,I even laid on them hard and jerked them back and forth and they hold fine..I wouldnt change them unless I saw meat hooks or a big kink in them..they dont change the rigging on the big bridges that have been around for 100+ yrs..

I'll bet you've got galv wire. Its the pretty stainless thats no good.
DH, have you thought of Dyneema?
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Old 04-02-2013, 21:06   #25
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Re: Standing Rigging Replacement

If the mast is already down just do it. Else two years (or minutes) after you stepped it back on you'll be worrying about it. Don't ask how I know.

Also, have you checked the internal condition of the electrical wiring? Might be worth doing it too....not just supporting Pete here.
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Old 04-02-2013, 21:27   #26
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My race boat gets new rigging every 5 years to keep insurance valid (Vancouver BC). Our cruiser in Europe I was thinking replacing the rigging at 10 years.. Now that it's 10 years old I am thinking 15 :-). It is for certain that a broken upper, forestay or backstay would result in a ruined summer. By the time you sourced a mast the summer would be gone.if I look at our rig we have twin back stays, an inner forestay so I am a little more comfortable. I do a complete up the rig inspection every year. Last year we took the race boat's rig and the split ring that held the forestay was gone. It is often the small connections -- split rings, cotter pins and the like are the weak links.

You might be able to source a rigging package Pre-made that could be a good deal. Also, when the mast is out change everything you can. We added a masthead LED running light last year -- took me 4+ hours up the top of the mast. On the ground would have been 15 minutes. Same with the RADAR, VHF antenna, internal halyards. Think of it like either putting on a new leak-proof roof or patching the old one ... One is cheaper, one lets you sleep well at night. Up to you.
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Old 04-02-2013, 22:33   #27
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Re: Standing Rigging Replacement

If it had only been ten years, I'd question the wisdom of doing it. However, it's been 13. You really don't know how the PO treated the rig, but you know that you abused it as a new owner before you were wise enough to reef when it blew. And you're planning to head North, as in capital-letter North.

Time to give the lady some new jewelry.
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Old 04-02-2013, 23:07   #28
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Re: Standing Rigging Replacement

DIY! Norseman or Staylocs are no brainers. I just replaced all the Standing rigging on my Morgan 462. It had been around the Horn just before I bought it was knocked down in the Rio Plata and had several very hards storms on the SS rope before I decided to do it.

One thing to remember is remove and replace all bulbs (or install that nifty LED masthead light) and of course when you inspect it when its down, you can see if there is corrosion in the valleys of the lays which indicates relacement time.

Sounds like you do some sailing in remote places. Is it worth it to take a flyer on the ropes just to save a few bucks.

I know the nasty crap we have been through and won't hesitate to put my boat through it's paces because I KNOW it is as strong as can be.
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Old 05-02-2013, 01:48   #29
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Re: Standing Rigging Replacement

I you are thinking of doing it anyway I would really consider switching to dyneema.
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Old 05-02-2013, 03:37   #30
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Re: Standing Rigging Replacement

Lower fittings are good places for failure. You don't see any problem until it pops.

I have never rigged a mast that size so I'm no authority but dyneema sure sounds good. TBH with stainless 6 or 7 strand I prefer to splice. Crevice corrosion is not so much a factor with a splice but again I am not intimately familiar with that scale of things.

Chances are your wires are just fine. The operative word is "chances".
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