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Old 12-12-2011, 18:36   #1
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Stainless Rigging 1x19 302/304 or 316

I am about to replace my standing rigging i will use sta-lok fittings. is there a need to use 316 for the wire? I understand it is less corrosion resistant than 302/304 but it is also weaker. My Alberg rigging is 41yrs old, hence the replacement, I am assuming they used 304 back then but not too sure so i am asking here, what have you used and what was your reasoning for choosing it. Thank you
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Old 12-12-2011, 19:05   #2
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Re: Stainless Rigging 1x19 302/304 or 316

316 is better for swaged fittings because it's usually corrosion that causes swages to fail (they corrode, which causes expansion, cracking the swage).

So with sta'loks, you shouldn't have a problem using 304, but it will degrade a bit sooner than 316 in certain climates... nothing wrong with 316 and sta-locks. although some people say sta-lock (types) will cause 'work hardening' in the wire, which 316 is more susceptible to (not really 'weaker').

So basically, 316 for swages, 304 for mechanical fittings... unless you're really worried about corrosion, then 316 for everything.

[disclaimer] Not an expert...
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Old 13-12-2011, 03:07   #3
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Re: Stainless Rigging 1x19 302/304 or 316

Thank you, i meant to say that 316 was more corrossion resistant..my mistake. I appreciate the input. I dont mind spending the extra money on 316 but if it wee not completely needed why waste it. thanks again
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Old 13-12-2011, 13:27   #4
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Re: Stainless Rigging 1x19 302/304 or 316

My opinion is that there are places where there is "value" in saving money and places where there is "value" in spending extra money to get the best... my prejudice is that standing rigging is one of the latter
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Old 13-12-2011, 13:29   #5
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Re: Stainless Rigging 1x19 302/304 or 316

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My opinion is that there are places where there is "value" in saving money and places where there is "value" in spending extra money to get the best... my prejudice is that standing rigging is one of the latter
You wil be wanting Nitronic 40 then....
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Old 13-12-2011, 14:04   #6
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Re: Stainless Rigging 1x19 302/304 or 316

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You wil be wanting Nitronic 40 then....
Nah, I'll get some Aquamet 22 or duplex 2205 custom made...

I take your point though.... "best" probably wasn't the correct adjective. But the point is valid... 316 is the "best" choice of the 3 grades teh OP listed... and in this instance, I'd choose the 316.
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Old 13-12-2011, 15:02   #7
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Re: Stainless Rigging 1x19 302/304 or 316

I'd also choose 316, mainly because the wire itself is the cheapest part of the whole job, and the prices really aren't that much different. From what I've read, you can expect several more years out of 316 than you would with 304, especially if going to the tropics. If you really want to save money, use swages instead of sta-locks

Swages have a bad reputation because of their co-existence with 304 stainless. 316 wire solves most of those issues. But that wasn't the question.... Alot of people are starting to recommend swages at the mast and mechanical fittings at the chainplates to save a few bucks. But that kinda defeats the purpose of mechanical fittings, which, in my mind, is to be able to re-use the fittings as well as make unexpected repairs alot easier. The debate of which ones are stronger is still an unsolved mystery. A good swaged terminal with 316 wire should last just as long, but you'll have to replace the terminals again next time you replace the rigging. But they're like half the price, so mechanical fittings don't really pay off until you use atleast 3 times
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Old 13-12-2011, 15:03   #8
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Re: Stainless Rigging 1x19 302/304 or 316

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“Rigs with swaged terminals are among the most susceptible to failures; frequent inspections are necessary to ensure their integrity. If the strands of a wire rope do not lead fairly into a swaged terminal; if there is evidence of corrosion, especially at the top of the terminal; or if the terminal is cracked or warped, no matter how slightly, it is of uncertain integrity and should be replaced at once. Swages are the overwhelmingly favorite choice for sailboat terminals because of their low cost, neat, compact appearance and high initial tensile strength. But they are not to be trusted.
Here's a good article/read........ Stainless Steel Fatigue stress cracked swage

http://www.bosunsupplies.com/knowledge.cfm
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Old 13-12-2011, 15:15   #9
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Re: Stainless Rigging 1x19 302/304 or 316

More articles............. Stainless

Quote:
Rigs constructed of 316 stainless will generally outlive those built of 302 or 304, especially in warm tropical waters, where salt water corrosion is a formidable adversary. If you select 316, consider increasing your wire one size to make up for the reduction in strength. But price carefully. Stepping up one size in wire will increase your rigging strength 15-16%, but your cost may increase exponentially, since the wire is not the expensive part of the bargain. The larger turnbuckles, jaws, eyes, clevis pins, etc. required by the larger diameter wire can wreak havoc on your budget.

Regular inspection is the best prevention (as usual on a boat). Use a 50x pocket magnifier if you really want to see what's happening on the surface of your stainless rigging and fittings. For preventive maintenance, polish the surface of your stainless with a stainless steel polish like Wichard's Wichinox. Wichard achieved its reputation for superior polished stainless finishes by polishing their hardware twice as long as anyone else in the industry. Polishing creates a smooth metal surface and helps minimize the number of pits, valleys and microscopic cracks where moisture can reside and create the environment corrosion loves.
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Old 13-12-2011, 15:20   #10
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Re: Stainless Rigging 1x19 302/304 or 316

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Here's a good article/read........ Stainless Steel Fatigue stress cracked swage
Right, but that's assuming 304 stainless. The corrosion of the wire is what causes swages to fail (or a poor swage to begin with). So by using 316, which has significantly better corrosion resistance, it changes the whole game. Again, this is the same old information that gives swages a bad name. It's true information, but they are not talking about 316 wire, which is much more compatible with swages.

I'm not claiming any type of expertise, but I do believe swages reputation is based on a different era of rigging before 316 became the popular choice.

The swages on my boat (with 304 wire) are over 15 years old and still show to be in good condition. Granted, it's lived in a non-salty environment (northern chessie) and wasn't sailed very hard the last 10 years... So, If I'm still going to get 10 years out of swaged fittings, the cost savings is not insignificant. $40 a fitting, vs. $10. That's $400 vs. $100 just for the eyes alone on my boat. I'll gladly spend that savings on the higher grade wire and a reputable rigger to get another 10 years of service out of this boat
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Old 13-12-2011, 15:21   #11
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Re: Stainless Rigging 1x19 302/304 or 316

The breaking strength of 316 is about 20% sooner............ Marine Wire Rope & Cable, Yacht Rigging, Life Line - Loos & Co., Inc.


It all comes down to how much money you're willing to spend, now or later.
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Old 13-12-2011, 15:23   #12
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Re: Stainless Rigging 1x19 302/304 or 316

Of course, if I had the money, i'd gladly upgrade to sta-locks too
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Old 13-12-2011, 15:29   #13
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Re: Stainless Rigging 1x19 302/304 or 316

The wire is very rarely what breaks in a rigging failure. It's generally the fitting or the attachment point. Oversizing wire is not generally recommended unless you wire was undersized to begin with.
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Old 13-12-2011, 15:36   #14
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Re: Stainless Rigging 1x19 302/304 or 316

[QUOTE=callmecrazy;837814]The wire is very rarely what breaks in a rigging failure. It's generally the fitting or the attachment point. Oversizing wire is not generally recommended unless your wire was undersized to begin with.

IYHO!
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Old 13-12-2011, 15:40   #15
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Re: Stainless Rigging 1x19 302/304 or 316

Its not really my opinion. It's the general opinion I've gathered from recent research, and consulting with local riggers in expectation of replacing my own rig.

Certainly I'd recommend anyone to do their own research on the subject and form their own opinion. Reading a few articles doesn't count for much...I've read some real horsepoo from supposed experts. I never take research lightly, and I certainly don't take replacing my rig lightly either.
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