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Old 25-08-2009, 06:09   #1
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Spinnakers and Head Sails

My Cal-39 (sloop) from some of the sails it came with appears to have been raced in the past. But I'm only using the cruising sails. But I do have some that are of use I'm sure for which I don't have any experience with and am looking for some help.

1 - I have one that the bag says it is a "Tall boy" - what the heck is this and when would it be used.

2 - I have 2 spinnakers and I have never sailed one (but have been doing my reading on how to). One is a 3/4-oz and the other is a 1-1/2 oz. It seems from what I've read that the 3/4-oz is real light for my 39' boat (was raced remember) that I figure is probably not for me. But either way, from others expeirence with this size boat what wind speed would it be recommended to fly either of these sails (I need to pull the 1-1/2 oz out of the sock and figure what type of spinnaker it is. I do have a pole but not a bow spirt so am thinking it is an asymmetric)?

3 - anyone interested in buying some mylar sails?
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Old 25-08-2009, 06:50   #2
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The tall boy is a staysail used with the spinaker, we sometimes used them as wind seekers but mostly that was done with a daisy staysail. Keep the sail, you'll like it.

A 3/4 ounce sym kite is an all aound kite and probably ok up to 25 true, the 1.5 ounce is good till your courage runs out. Play with the 3/4 in the lighet stuff and learn how to fly it, good fun that is nice when you have a long run and don't want to power.

Mylar is funny, it shrinks and looses shape, races won't buy used mylar. There yours but you'll use them.

Our all around kite is 3/4 with a 1.5 oz luff, the size is about 3,000 sq ft. My wife and I use it for longer legs but we also fly it on shorter legs when we have another couple hands.
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Old 25-08-2009, 07:40   #3
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Isn't a Tall-Boy a different name for a blooper? I thought it was, so its not a staysail but flies beyond and below the spinnaker in the days of old when boats raced dead downwind.


At the age of the kites I would be loath to fly them in high wind, Joli has more nerve than me on the 3/4 oz... I would have that down at 20 true, and the 1 1/2 oz down by 25T and either down by 20 apparent.

I'd sure be pulling them out on the lawn and taking a photo of them and we can tell you what type they are... they wont be asymmetric if they are Tall Boy vintage.

Of course you could just invite Joli and me for a quick lap around the bay and we can have some fun with your new found kites!!!!!!!!

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Old 25-08-2009, 08:00   #4
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Mark, I'm with Joli - I'll fly my 3/4 oz symmetrical at winds up to about 25 knots true (roughly 18 apparent); but then, on a catamaran, I don't need to worry about struggling with a pole and I can easily douse it with a snuffer. On a monohull, I think your numbers are spot on.

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Old 25-08-2009, 08:17   #5
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Staysail definitions: Staysails

Mark, 20? wimp

We had a nice kite ride Sunday with the 3/4 in about 17 true with boat speed in the low teens ~12-14 knots. It was broad (130-140) but we pulled the breeze by 45 so it was a hard reach.

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Isn't a Tall-Boy a different name for a blooper? I thought it was, so its not a staysail but flies beyond and below the spinnaker in the days of old when boats raced dead downwind.


At the age of the kites I would be loath to fly them in high wind, Joli has more nerve than me on the 3/4 oz... I would have that down at 20 true, and the 1 1/2 oz down by 25T and either down by 20 apparent.

I'd sure be pulling them out on the lawn and taking a photo of them and we can tell you what type they are... they wont be asymmetric if they are Tall Boy vintage.

Of course you could just invite Joli and me for a quick lap around the bay and we can have some fun with your new found kites!!!!!!!!
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Old 25-08-2009, 09:35   #6
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You guys aren't trying to kill me now are you :-)
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Old 25-08-2009, 18:31   #7
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You guys aren't trying to kill me now are you :-)
Nope. Just gunna show you that your boat can surf real well
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Old 27-08-2009, 12:30   #8
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Not much experience input here. Should I make the assumption that not many cruisers are using any spinnakers?
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Old 27-08-2009, 12:33   #9
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I absolutely loved my asym-in-a-sock up on the Chesapeake Bay, but used it only twice in the Caribbean.
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Old 27-08-2009, 12:51   #10
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Nothing wrong with only sailing white sails. We've raced a bit so are comfortable with free flying sails and tend to fly them when possible.

Here we are daysailing (my wife and I) with an assy kite in a sock, the breeze was light, maybe mid teens. We did not bother with the pole and since this was only a short jump (30 miles) we did not bother to roll and secure the lazy cradle.

The decision to fly kites is totally yours, there is no right or wrong answer.

Oh, a tall boy would be a sweat staysail to have iin this configuration. It re-attaches flow to the back side of the main.




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Not much experience input here. Should I make the assumption that not many cruisers are using any spinnakers?
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Old 03-09-2009, 16:50   #11
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So I currently have the 3/4 oz and 1.5 oz spinnakers out on the grass. Both are symeterical. I looked them up in my "book" and now know the 3/4 oz is a running cut and the other a combo cut. So tomorrow the wind is forecasted to be 5-10 knots and I'm going to take the 1.5 oz out and try it (because that one is in a sock). And if I survive that I'm going to fly it over the weekend for a 50 KM passage that is forecasted to be 10 knots where if the predicted wind direction holds will be running both there and back (like the weather guys don't lie). So if you don't hear from me in a few days; YOU KILLED ME :-)
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Old 03-09-2009, 17:36   #12
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So if you don't hear from me in a few days; YOU KILLED ME :-)
Ahhhh you'll love it!

At sea in 5 to 10kts the sail will keep collapsing and then filling... it looks like a bag of crap but its quite normal.
Lake and bay people have nicely set spinnakers, but real sailors have them floppin round on the waves

Enjoy the trip!
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Old 03-09-2009, 20:25   #13
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The trick is not to get too dead down wind with it. Those accidental jibes cause havoc. Play with the pole and get the feel for what it does at different sets. And as MarkJ says you will have fun. Once you start flying it and learn to handle it the rush is as good as the first time turning off the engine under sail. Have fun and by the way we have all done silly things with spinakers don't let the occasional screw up put you off them they definely have their place.

Cheers

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Old 03-09-2009, 21:05   #14
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How many will you have on board?

We fly our kite with 2 up in light (>10 kts) and no auto pilot. It takes a bit of organization on the set and the douse and a little planning for the gybes. 3 up makes it a lot easier.
especially on your larger boat.

With 2 up -

crew 1 = Helm and spinnaker trim. We have a tiller so it usually means the helm is between the knees on the set and steering on the gybe. Spinnaker halyard on the drop. If you have an auto pilot that really can help.

Crew 2 = Main trim, spinnaker hoist, genny furl. Spinnaker pole on the gybes. Unfurl genny initial genny trim and spinnaker collection on the douse straight into the forward hatch.

Once it is flying it is easy. As Sari Says don't go too deep, but also make sure you go deep enough to fly the spinnaker in front of the boat, especially on the hoist.

15-20 off DDW is about right. The genny will help mask the spinnaker during the hoist so it doesn't fill to quick. Pole forward after the spinnaker is made and pole back will expose the spinnaker to the wind and it should fill right up. Once you start the hoist, get it right up and don't dally.

A partially hoisted and filled spinnaker can be a handful for 2 people. If you get partially hoisted stay deep, and guys and sheet off (even if you have to let it do a flyer), do not submit to the tendency to reach up or immeditely drop it. That will make things worse.

I am not trying to alarm you - this is not that hard but it is a big sail, hard to reach, with a lot of potential power.

The ultimate bail out should it be (remotely) necessary will be something like dropping the spinnaker in the water and cutting the halyard. If you do this it is very important to bear up a bit and not drive the boat over the spinnaker. But don't worry - that won't happen..
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Old 03-09-2009, 21:44   #15
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If you do drop it in the water you can dry it out back at the dock by flying it upside down when you get back to the dock. But don't get too used to doing that. I was sailing with a guy last week who told a story about how he once put the spin up upside down it so impressed the skipper he laughed so hard and lost his false teeth overboard. Seriously though if you are not racing and careful and slow you shouldn't have any problems that you you can not laugh about at the bar later. By the way cruising under spinikar requires a beer in one hand while trimming racing requires lots of shouting and four letter words.
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