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Old 27-03-2013, 10:36   #31
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Re: Spinnaker Recommendations for a Cruiser

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Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
I'd go with a Gennaker/Reacher/Drifter/Code zero rather than an Asym.
Excellent advice. Our customers, some of whom have reported firsthand on this site, have been very content with their choice of a CLASS (Cruisers Light Air Sail Solution) and will not be going back to using a cruising spinnaker. Flying the sail from a foil-less furler is much easier than using a sock.
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Old 27-03-2013, 10:43   #32
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Re: Spinnaker Recommendations for a Cruiser

If you sail long distances downwind in light to medium winds, like crossing the pacific, a symmetrical spinnaker can be very nice. I didn't read every post but see one option missing:

- buy a second spinnaker pole. With two poles you will be disqualified for racing but it will completely stabilize the spinnaker for a lovely ride. Some boats come with this equipped as standard like the Amel's.

cheers,
Nick.
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Old 27-03-2013, 11:02   #33
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Re: Spinnaker Recommendations for a Cruiser

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Originally Posted by Don L View Post
I don't really see any sense to pay more for a custom spinnaker. What difference would you really expect between them? Maybe 2 extra square feet or something.
The question is really whether it's better to save some money buying a generic spinnaker built to a set of stock dimension or to have a spinnaker custom designed and built for a few to several hundred dollars more.

Sometimes a stock size works out and sometimes it doesn't.

The reason you see some lightly used assym's for sale is that people use them and find them quite unmanageable. Last week a gentleman with a Hunter 40 something inquired about spinnakers. We looked at the stock size spinnakers and found that one with an appropriate luff length would have a girth close to 200% of his J measurement. We'd normally want to see that number around 165% for a cruising spinnaker.

Another drawback of the stock size spinnakers is that they are often built with 1.5oz cloth to keep costs down. 1.5 is too heavy for really light conditions. 0.75oz cloth is more expensive which I know is counter intuitive but that's the way nylon is priced.

About 3 years ago we had a customer who needed a sail quickly (delivered to Puerto Vallarta in 10 days) and the only choice we had was to offer him a stock spinnaker. It actually fit the boat pretty nicely and he had a great time crossing the Pacific with it. Here's a photo.
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Old 27-03-2013, 11:08   #34
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Re: Spinnaker Recommendations for a Cruiser

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
If you sail long distances downwind in light to medium winds, like crossing the pacific, a symmetrical spinnaker can be very nice. I didn't read every post but see one option missing:

- buy a second spinnaker pole. With two poles you will be disqualified for racing but it will completely stabilize the spinnaker for a lovely ride. Some boats come with this equipped as standard like the Amel's.

cheers,
Nick.
Nick,

We have an Amel with the twin pole arrangement, but there's a lot more to it than just a second pole. There's a bracket installed between the shrouds that a strut attaches to from the side of the mast. Then the pole attaches to the strut. The pole itself is a standard size pole but the effective length is much longer due to the strut. You also have the ability to articulate the pole from the end of that strut so the spinnaker pole end can go in position further aft than a pole flown from the forward face of the mast since those are restrained by the forward lowers in how far back they go.

Here's a link to a 2009 photo that shows the struts coming off the sides of the mast. We're going to build a set of twins with a common luff, flown from a foil-less furler to replace this particular sail combination. http://islandplanetsails.files.wordp...l_downwind.jpg

Your boat is one of my favorites. If we ever sold our Amel, we'd be looking at boats like yours.
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Old 27-03-2013, 11:21   #35
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Re: Spinnaker Recommendations for a Cruiser

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Originally Posted by islandplanet View Post
Nick,

We have an Amel with the twin pole arrangement, but there's a lot more to it than just a second pole. There's a bracket installed between the shrouds that a strut attaches to from the side of the mast. Then the pole attaches to the strut. The pole itself is a standard size pole but the effective length is much longer due to the strut. You also have the ability to articulate the pole from the end of that strut so the spinnaker pole end can go in position further aft than a pole flown from the forward face of the mast since those are restrained by the forward lowers in how far back they go.

Here's a link to a 2009 photo that shows the struts coming off the sides of the mast. We're going to build a set of twins with a common luff, flown from a foil-less furler to replace this particular sail combination. http://islandplanetsails.files.wordp...l_downwind.jpg

Your boat is one of my favorites. If we ever sold our Amel, we'd be looking at boats like yours.
Hi IslandPlanet,

Yes the Amel has it pretty well worked out, but you can get most of the advantages with a regular 2nd pole to the mast attachment too (2nd car or eye). It is more work but once set it will be pretty cool.

I must mess with a jockey pole and am too scared to hoist our symmetric Thanks for the nice words on Sundeer; Amel and Sundeer are related not by blood but by soul (and design goals)
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:57   #36
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Re: Spinnaker Recommendations for a Cruiser

We have a Gennaker on a Facnor continuous furler and an Asym with a sock on our Beneteau 49. On this large a boat, the sock gets pretty unwieldy and I've had trouble getting it out of the sock due to jams. By adding a swivel atop the existing Facnor and a torque rope, we can convert to a furling spinnaker and hopefully make its handling easier for under $1,000. Juan at Maui Pro Sailing was very helpful.

I've flown the asymmetrical from a pole on an overnight nearly dead downwind sail from Boston to Maine at a comfortable 10 kt with a nice stable set, so recommend this if the run is long enough to make up for the extra work involved.
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Old 02-04-2013, 21:05   #37
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Re: Spinnaker Recommendations for a Cruiser

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Originally Posted by Utahsailor View Post
We have a Gennaker on a Facnor continuous furler and an Asym with a sock on our Beneteau 49. On this large a boat, the sock gets pretty unwieldy and I've had trouble getting it out of the sock due to jams. By adding a swivel atop the existing Facnor and a torque rope, we can convert to a furling spinnaker and hopefully make its handling easier for under $1,000. Juan at Maui Pro Sailing was very helpful.

I've flown the asymmetrical from a pole on an overnight nearly dead downwind sail from Boston to Maine at a comfortable 10 kt with a nice stable set, so recommend this if the run is long enough to make up for the extra work involved.
Utahsailor,

If you set up your own anti-torque rope, check out the Colligo line clamp. I have a client near Puerto Vallarta we built a couple of sails for and we needed to shorten the existing anti-torque rope. Stuff that's been in use is hard to splice so we sent him a line clamp which works like a charm. You can fine tune your rope as needed. Just have whoever supplies the line install your top thimble and the bottom you can do on the boat.
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Old 02-04-2013, 21:41   #38
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Re: Spinnaker Recommendations for a Cruiser

Has anyone tried a parachute for downwind?
Surplus 28ft chute for $250 seems worth a try, can it works as sea anchor too?


Sailing Downwind with a Parachut
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Old 02-04-2013, 21:44   #39
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Re: Spinnaker Recommendations for a Cruiser

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Has anyone tried a parachute for downwind?
Surplus 28ft chute for $250 seems worth a try, can it works as sea anchor too?


Sailing Downwind with a Parachut
With water being much denser than air, what do you think?
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Old 02-04-2013, 22:37   #40
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Re: Spinnaker Recommendations for a Cruiser

Keep the spinnaker, practice with it; streamline your behavior, it does get easier. Also, keep the pole, use it to pole out the genoa when there's too much wind for you to use the chute. We have an old tri-radial spinnaker, and in flattish, calm conditions, it's just the ticket for moving the boat smartly. It's the difference between 6+ knots boatspeed and 2 or 2-1/2 with the genoa. Besides that, it's colorful, more easily seen by other vessels. (Bet that's the first time you've heard of spinnakers being classified as safety gear! ;-) )
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Old 03-04-2013, 01:49   #41
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Re: Spinnaker Recommendations for a Cruiser

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Something I am about to try with our asymetric is to gear it at the bowsprit instead of using the pole...for those who already tried it, is it OK or will I have some trouble to do so ?
Asymmetric or symmetric? Asymmetric's are usually rigged to the bowsprit or anchor roller.

With my symmetric I have done this a few times when I have been to lazy to get the pole out. It kind of works ok for me if I drop the main and run the sheet out to the end of the boom downwind.

On an reach if you pull the guy just tight enough to hold the spinnaker onto the forestay and rig a downhaul to stop it riding up the stay it sort of works as well. Hard on a furled sail though, those ATN things might work ok for this.

I have heard you can gybe easily with a setup like this, setting the sheet/guys to just the right length. I can't say I have tried it.

Worth playing about with in light airs.
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Old 03-04-2013, 01:58   #42
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Re: Spinnaker Recommendations for a Cruiser

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
If you sail long distances downwind in light to medium winds, like crossing the pacific, a symmetrical spinnaker can be very nice. I didn't read every post but see one option missing:

- buy a second spinnaker pole. With two poles you will be disqualified for racing but it will completely stabilize the spinnaker for a lovely ride. Some boats come with this equipped as standard like the Amel's.
Just make sure you don't broach with the leeward pole out at 45 degrees so it ends up dragging in the water. It will put massive loads on your mast. Saying that if you don't intend to broach (like all good cruisers) it is a great way to travel, we used to gybe the bigger racing boats like this with two poles and it was always so nice with both clews locked into place. We took our time with the gybe...

My new boat is set up like this, looking forward to playing with it.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:19   #43
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Re: Spinnaker Recommendations for a Cruiser

Islandplanet: Thank you for the Colligo clamp info. It is the exact solution I was looking for- we will leave extra length so the bowsprit that we'll fabricate this summer and fly it off the existing bow tip then.

I have been living on this forum for the past few days as we outfit our boat for two+ years of living aboard and I have never seen so many good ideas presented so well in all areas of sailing- solar panels, batteries and their controllers, sails and handling, anchors- on and on, my questions have had many answers. Thanks to all!!!

Don Mitchell
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