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Old 20-11-2011, 17:16   #46
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Re: Solent Stay Question

My 44 cutter had the staysail chainplate atached to the anchor locker bulkhead and was fine. However, I think most Solent rigs have the headstay tack points fairly close together at the stem. Otherwise your kind of making a cutter rig of sorts I 'spose. I've never heard of anyone using the solent rig to run 2 headsails... not that it cant be done. Usually it's for a working jib or storm sail, as the furling jib isnt much good in a lot of wind.

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Old 21-11-2011, 01:14   #47
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Re: Solent Stay Question

Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
well the obvious way to be able to do all that is to use a removable 'code zero' style furler (perhaps a facnor or Karver). That gives you a furling sail and stay that you can completely put away when you want.
Thanks Evans. Have looked at the links and they seem to be what I am looking for. It is just that I have 2 furlers already!

Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
I'd expect that what you want to do is perfectly feasible, the only real question is what bits of hardware you'll need and who offers them. If you call someone who makes the fittings (in the US I'd say Harken or Garhauer) to see what they offer that may solve the puzzle. Since you've either got a lot of math or some hands-on experimenting to get balance right, I'd suggest a robust low-profile track running fore/aft on the deck rather than trying to get a single attachment point in the right place. Then you can just fit whatever you want to try, and change it as need be.
Hellosailor: Good tip, just not sure about drilling even more holes into the deck though. To complicate matters (or simplfy), there is a self tacking jib track and tackle installed as well. I would like to combine this with the 'new' solent stay to deploy a self tending staysail, thus making a cutter rig.

Once I have it clear in my mind, then it is simply doing the maths and collecting all the bits of hardware to do it. Ain't boats wonderful?

Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Now I'm considering your concerns about rig loads. Analysis of stresses in our sweptback spreader rig are beyond me, and I wonder if you have any comments along those lines?


Hi Jim. Interesting read here over at SA on this topic. Interesting to see that some with swept spreaders use ways to adjust the tension in the capping shrouds to avoid excessive backstay tension that Rich is talking about, but at the same time increase forestay tension and mast bend.

Originally Posted by Weyalan View Post
2. Attachment on the deck
There is a buckhead about 1.2m (4') back from the stem. I was planning to put the bottom hard point for the solent stay directly over this. The bulkhead is about 10mm (3/8") ply, glassed onto the underside of the deck and inside of the hull. It has a fairly cut-out in it to allow acces forward, so there is probably only about 150mm (6") of bulkhead above around the deck and hull sides.... i.e. it is more like a substantial ring-frame than a bulkhead. So, the question is, would this be likely to be strong enough for the loads associated with the solent stay attacment (via backing plates), or will I need to fashion some sort of tesioning strop down to the hull?
Weyalan: I am facing the exact same problem, except I have no bulkhead at all in the underneath area I want to make the attachment on the deck. My thought is to make a removable tensioning system with something like a Highfield Lever to connect when the Solent Stay is going to be used, to transfer the loading direct to the hull. In your case, I guess you could try it an see if the deck will deflect excessively, however if it goes, it will of course be at the most inopportune moment, lifting the deck and delaminating or worse. The temporary 'strop' should not be such a inconvenience, as I guess that if you have to deploy the storm sail, no one is going to be occupying the V Berth right?

Originally Posted by jjt View Post
As I see it there are 2 possible solutions:

If the distance between the forestay and the solent stay is big (a slooter rig), the foresail should be a 110% high clew yankee, in this case I think you even need to furl partially the sail to tack.

If the distance beetween both stays is very small (a real solent rig), the obvious solution is to rig the bigger sail in the solent stay and to rig the storm sails in the forestay so you can tack your big Genoa as any other sloop and you only need to furl a much smaller sail to tack (very seldom but in high winds)
JJT: A good option really, with minimal investment.

I guess my real goal is to have the option to use the removable stay as a cutter rig as well. Since the boat already has a true solent rig (the furler drums are about 100mm apart on the bow), I would like to utilise what is already there. I am not sure I want to introduce a third stay, as this will complicate matters unnecessarily. Having said that, the suggestion from Evans using the Facnor or Karver style furler could solve the problem.

Thanks all for the discussion so far

Apologies to FJ again for the thread hijack


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Old 21-11-2011, 03:52   #48
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Re: Solent Stay Question

I have a Halmatic 30 that was rigged by Proctor with a solent rig when it was first built in 1985.
The removable forestay attaches to a deck plate bolted through to the anchor locker bulkhead.
The mast fitting is less than 12 inches below the forestay. There is a dedicated inner jib halyard.
I only attach the inner stay when we are going offshore, it is a pain to furl the jib every time we have to tack.
On the other hand, the rig is a dream offshore.
I generally hank the storm jib on in its bag, then hank on a blade staysail above it. With dedicated sheets and blocks, just furl the jib and hoist the blade when it blows up.
Unhank the blade and the storm jib is ready.
As Evans suggested, I also have a hanked no2 which lets me go wing to wing downwind with two poles. With a cutter rig, the hoist is too small for two similar sized jibs, but with the inner forestay going to the masthead, hoist and jib size give a nice balanced setup.
Inshore the boat is a sloop and is no pig on the wind.
Offshore I always bear away a bit when cruising to get through the swell, and I am not racing. I havn't noticed any problems pointing as high as I want to, and I really wonder if the criticism of windward performance with a solent rig comes from practical experience.
If I was rigging a boat again I would seriously consider the idea of a dyneema stay, but wonder about chafe on a long passage.
Using the spinnaker halyard would also involve a lot of chafe, especially when using a tall jib for a twin headsail rig.
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Old 21-11-2011, 06:10   #49
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Re: Solent Stay Question

Originally Posted by RichH View Post
... the stay with the sail flying will relax and the 'lazy' stay will tighten. The now less-loaded stay flying the sail will cause the luff shape of 'sail' to become grossly distorted
Hmmmmm, good point.

But couldn't this situation be rectified by additional halyard tension on whichever sail is being flown at the time?

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