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Old 26-07-2007, 03:39   #1
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Soft Wing Sail

Duckworks had an announcement about Omer wing sail - soft and variable wing sail which I passed to the Boat Design forum. Ilan Gonen is willing to answer all questions about his rig, which appears to have many benefits. I prefer motor boating to sailing, but Ilan has caught the interest of a number of boat designers.

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Old 26-07-2007, 10:12   #2
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I looks like an off set junk rig. Not very practial for off shore. And from the picture...............



it looks like it would sail on a stbd tack, but how about a port tack
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Old 26-07-2007, 14:33   #3
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snipped
[it looks like it would sail on a stbd tack, but how about a port tack ]

Take a look at the pictures on the website link. It's a symmetrical sail with mast hoops on a freestanding rig.

Steve B.
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Old 26-07-2007, 16:32   #4
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Looks very expensive.
JohnL
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Old 26-07-2007, 19:21   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by senormechanico
Take a look at the pictures on the website link. It's a symmetrical sail with mast hoops on a freestanding rig.
So, the wing straddles the mast. Does it reverse the arc when tacked?

How about before the wind?? Rigging a spink'r must be special (no back stay).

It looks interesting but slightly funtional. I'm tring to be open minded but just can't see it (in my mind) in a 30 kt wind and 6' seas.
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Old 26-07-2007, 22:07   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delmarrey
So, the wing straddles the mast. Does it reverse the arc when tacked?

How about before the wind?? Rigging a spink'r must be special (no back stay).

It looks interesting but slightly funtional. I'm tring to be open minded but just can't see it (in my mind) in a 30 kt wind and 6' seas.

The website has polars for it as well. According to the site, it's better upwind and down wind, but about the same on a reach. Click on "Performance" to see chart.

Here are a couple of pictures of the sail system:

http://www.omerwingsail.com/images/gallery/ws11.jpg

http://omerwingsail.com/lib/2454539.jpg

It's interesting, but I have no association with this.

Steve B.
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Old 27-07-2007, 02:13   #7
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Delmarrey,

Send him an invitation to this site from the email facility on Omer wing sail - soft and variable wing sail

Ilan is willing to explain everything including reefing for high winds. There is also a reprint of a Yachting World April 2005 article.

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Old 27-07-2007, 07:13   #8
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Hi
I am new in this forum, however I saw some of the things you guys wrote about Omer wing sail that I would like to explain.
In general, the boat with Omer wing sail has much better performance than the same boat with standard rig, in terms of pointing up wind as well as boat speed in any wind direction.
She is easier to handle short handed and also very easy to trim.
It is a variable geometry wing sail and the camber is not only very easy to change from port to starboard, but also to trim the rate of the airfoil asymmetry (when the wind is blowing hard you make it almost symmetrical while in light wind - max. asymmetrical airfoil).
The wing always rotates into the wind (the leading edge is always facing the wind) thus, in down wind you keep on using the lift force rather than drag like in the case in standard rig.
It is also very easy to tack upwind - the only thing you have to do is to turn the wheel and to change the camber (by an electric switch ) while the main is kept sheeted in.
There is no need for any extra sail, including spinnaker. she is very fast down wind.
I tested the rig in strong winds. There was no problem since you can reef the wing exactely the way you reef a main sail. The wing can be reefed to 75%, 50%, 25% of sail area.
You are invited to visit the web site gallery (Omer wing sail - soft and variable wing sail) and see how she sails operates in various wind directions, in down wind, how it is reefed, how the camber is changed from port to starboard etc.

Ilan
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Old 27-07-2007, 10:29   #9
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I assume the demo boat is in Europe somewhere??

It would be interesting to see in action.

And wondering how would it perform on a Catamaran or Trihull? Without shrouds or stays I could see the advantage to the wing.
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Old 27-07-2007, 12:17   #10
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The boat is in Turkey now. You are invited.
I have no experience yet with multi hulls. I assume it will be even better than on my boat.
Ilan
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Old 27-07-2007, 20:49   #11
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They would be more effective on a multihull because of the lack of heeling. One of the reasons that wingmast are usually found on multihulls. Some time ago in England John Walker designed a rigid rotating multiple wingsail on a trimaran and it proved to be very effective, several boats were built but the cost was just to high to make it a viable project. I think they were called Walker Planesail as the sails looked like aircraft wings. Good luck with your idea. There a saying that goes something like this," The history of yachting shows that progress is acceptable as long as there is not too much progress.
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Old 28-07-2007, 11:05   #12
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Thank you Steve.
I hope Oner wing sail is not accepted as too much ..
Ilan
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Old 29-10-2007, 13:30   #13
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Just joined and without much in the way of knowledge but an instinctive attraction to freestanding rigs, I managed to find this thread. Not sure if it's just me but the Omer bears something more than a sneaking resemblance to something called the Gallant rig which is described in some detail in a thread called S/V Aphrodite where it suggests that it was invented by a British aerospace engineer in the '70s.

I've also come across Freedoms, Tantons and Wharrams which achieve a better aerofoil entry by effectively inserting the freestnding mast in a pocket in the luff. Essentially single thickness sails and far less stiffening and control than the Gallant/Omer; someone, somewhere has also got a freedom with a rotating aerofoil section mast and convention luff grove while Wharram's wing sail uses a gaff with a free foot thus overcoming some of the problems associated with a tapering aeroil.

If it sounds like I think I know what I'm talking about, I can assure you it's an accident. This is the sum total of my knowledge gleaned from the internet and absolutely no practical experience of anything other than conventioal rigs.

My interest is in what looks like a much more common sense approach to getting enough sail aloft in order to make decent progress thru two occassionally difficult mediums - what wouldn't the ancients have done for a bit of carbon fibre!

See ya!
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Old 29-10-2007, 14:46   #14
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SeeYa,

Most things evolve. Where would we be if Leonardo da Vinci had access to modern materials, as you suggested. Ilan's sail does work very well and I would choose it for a Gunboat 62, if I had the money for the vessel.

Delta Yachts - Gunboat catamaran

For downwind work I would prefer a traction kite, as favoured by a number of motor yacht delivery crews. KiteShip - Innovation in Tethered Flight

Certainly contact Ilan with any questions you may have about the wingsail, he will welcome your enquiries and he will explain how his system differs from those you have mentioned.

OMER wing sail Ltd
23 Hohit St. Ramat hasharon
ISRAEL 47226
Tel: +972 3 5401675
Mobile: +972 54 4277617
Email: ilan@omerwingsail.com
Web site: www.omerwingsail.com




Good luck,

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Old 29-10-2007, 17:32   #15
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Aloha Pericles,
Any discussion of cost?
Kind Regards,
JohnL
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