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Old 17-07-2016, 16:02   #16
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Re: Snatch Blocks

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Originally Posted by savoir View Post
It isn't a snatch block.

It isn't any kind of block.

Low friction rings are replacing some blocks. I am looking for an inexpensive replacement - why might this not be a reasonable cruising alternative to a snatch block?

The price seems to be very high - $110 US = $145 Cdn x 2 = $290 Cdn + tax & shipping.

Staying with Garhauer seems a better proposition to an Antal hook or block
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Old 17-07-2016, 18:19   #17
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Re: Snatch Blocks

Hi Adrian,

That Antal hook seems just the thing.

A less expensive option is Colligo's "Soft Snatch Block", which is the actual name Colligo chooses to use in spite of the ranters who claim there is no such thing. Perhaps it is a contradiction in terms, but there you have it. They start at 40-ish USD. Google "Colligo Marine" and you will find their website.
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Old 17-07-2016, 18:45   #18
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Re: Snatch Blocks

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Hi Adrian,

That Antal hook seems just the thing.

A less expensive option is Colligo's "Soft Snatch Block", which is the actual name Colligo chooses to use in spite of the ranters who claim there is no such thing. Perhaps it is a contradiction in terms, but there you have it. They start at 40-ish USD. Google "Colligo Marine" and you will find their website.
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The so called Colligo snatch block is not a block at all.
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Old 17-07-2016, 20:14   #19
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Re: Snatch Blocks

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Originally Posted by Benz View Post
Hi Adrian,

That Antal hook seems just the thing.

A less expensive option is Colligo's "Soft Snatch Block", which is the actual name Colligo chooses to use in spite of the ranters who claim there is no such thing. Perhaps it is a contradiction in terms, but there you have it. They start at 40-ish USD. Google "Colligo Marine" and you will find their website.
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Ben
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OK, I stand corrected - sort of. There is a thing called a "soft snatch block". But is in not a block as in "pulley-block" or "block and tackle" - it's a low friction bearing surface and it is not entirely soft.
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Old 18-07-2016, 03:27   #20
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Re: Snatch Blocks

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The so called Colligo snatch block is not a block at all.
To be certain it is not. But since it serves the same purpose, at least two people--the OP and John Franta at Colligo Marine--came up independently with the same term to describe it. And are looking for each other using that same term. So if the purpose of language is to communicate, mission accomplished! In spite of all you guys trying to obscure the OP's search by scolding him for calling a block that which is not a block.
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Old 18-07-2016, 03:51   #21
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Re: Snatch Blocks

Wichard and TyeTec also make some.

This is the Wichard version.

I think low friction rings have a lot of application on a cruising boat. They are simple, strong, durable, light and cheap. There is lot to like.

They cannot replace blocks everywhere, but racing boats are using them for many applications. Cruising sailors seem much slower on the uptake.
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Old 18-07-2016, 04:11   #22
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Re: Snatch Blocks

This is one of the TyeTec solutions. Unlike the Wichard version which is an open low friction ring the TyeTec It is more like a conventional snatch block, that is connected and held closed with a Dyneema loop. I think Antel make both styles.

There are lots of options these days.
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Old 18-07-2016, 06:13   #23
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Re: Snatch Blocks

Those solid blocks without sheaves are great but best for a static line that won't have much movement. I wouldn't want to pull, say, a jib sheet through one.


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Old 18-07-2016, 08:41   #24
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Re: Snatch Blocks

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
Wichard and TyeTec also make some.

This is the Wichard version.

I think low friction rings have a lot of application on a cruising boat. They are simple, strong, durable, light and cheap. There is lot to like.

They cannot replace blocks everywhere, but racing boats are using them for many applications. Cruising sailors seem much slower on the uptake.
The reason racers can use them and cruisers should be more wary is that low friction locks rely on how slippery dyneema is in order to reduce friction to a reasonable point. Keep in mind that dyneema line has a friction coefficient LOWER than Teflon, it is quite litterly more slippery than a Teflon pan. Switch to polyester line and the same ring can chew thru the cover pretty quickly, particularly on loaded lines.

If you are using uncovered dyneema lines they are awsome, but can be a serious issue with more traditional lines. Including polyester covered dyneema like endurabraid.
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Old 18-07-2016, 13:38   #25
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Re: Snatch Blocks

Not only do Colligo play fast and loose with their choice of words but they are also very optimistic in the assessment of the suitability of their products for various uses. They claim that a so called "snatch block" can be anchored to an aluminium toe rail with their rope product called Dux. From their website . . . .

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How long would that fitting last before it chaffed through and snapped ? 6 hours ? 8 maybe ? No doubt, because Murphy hates sailors, it would snap at 2am when it is raining and you are hung over. For a racer 8 hours on a snatch block might equal a whole summer but for a cruiser it isn't even one night. These fittings are not suitable for cruisers for whom durability must take priority.

Just last year and with great regret I had to trash my last Merriman snatch block because the shaft bent. It was made in 1975 so I guess I can't complain. I still have three Nicro snatch blocks which were made in around 1995 or thereabouts. The bearings were cleaned and greased last year and despite a few scratches they work like new.


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Old 18-07-2016, 14:39   #26
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Re: Snatch Blocks

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Originally Posted by savoir View Post
Not only do Colligo play fast and loose with their choice of words but they are also very optimistic in the assessment of the suitability of their products for various uses. They claim that a so called "snatch block" can be anchored to an aluminium toe rail with their rope product called Dux. From their website . . . .

Attachment 127982

How long would that fitting last before it chaffed through and snapped ? 6 hours ? 8 maybe ? No doubt, because Murphy hates sailors, it would snap at 2am when it is raining and you are hung over. For a racer 8 hours on a snatch block might equal a whole summer but for a cruiser it isn't even one night. These fittings are not suitable for cruisers for whom durability must take priority.

Just last year and with great regret I had to trash my last Merriman snatch block because the shaft bent. It was made in 1975 so I guess I can't complain. I still have three Nicro snatch blocks which were made in around 1995 or thereabouts. The bearings were cleaned and greased last year and despite a few scratches they work like new.


Planned obsolescence doesn't help cruisers at all.
Well, you sound pretty sure of yourself, SAvoir, but my Solent jib lead blocks (real blocks with rotating sheaves) are secured to the perforated toe rail with home made Dyneema 75 soft shackles. They have been in use for over 4 years now, during which time we've sailed well over 10K miles, and there has been no failure. In fact, I can't see ANY evidence of chafe on the Dyneema.

I do not believe that this performance is unusual.

So, until you can show us some contrary evidence, I'd say your criticism of Colligo's ads is unwarranted.

Jim
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Old 18-07-2016, 15:11   #27
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Re: Snatch Blocks

I can't see your toe rail so I can't comment. My toe rail has chewed through Dyneema in about 15 hours. I'll set it up again and take pics.
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Old 18-07-2016, 16:06   #28
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Re: Snatch Blocks

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How long would that fitting last before it chaffed through and snapped ? 6 hours ? 8 maybe ?
Dyneema is chafe resistant stuff. I don't think soft shackles have been available long enough to reliably establish their lifespan in this application, but providing there are no sharp edges I would be thinking in the order of years not hours. Much will depend on the design, and the smoothness and thickness of the edges of the toe rail.

We should think of new technology such as soft shackles and low friction rings, not as replacements for conventional solutions such as stainless steel shackles and blocks, but rather as an alternative. There are applications where they offer significant advantages and others where they are less suitable.

One of the big advantages in the application you show in the photo is the elimination of the dissimilar metal corrosion and a reduction in the abrasion that would be present if you used a conventional stainless steel shackle. My preference in this case would be to use a soft shackle if possible to preserve the condition and strength of the toe rail in the long term. Replacement of the soft shackle if it is required is not difficult or expensive.

My longest experience with soft shackles is to attach the snubber to the chain. I have used a soft shackle in this application for over two years. The galvanising on the chain can be a rough finish and there is constant movement usually close to 24 hours a day. My best estimate is that the soft shackle will last about 300 days and nights at anchor before there is enough wear to warrant replacement. Some other uses have commented they expect the life to be much longer so this maybe pessimistic. Time will tell.

The very short life you have experienced in your application is interesting. Obviously there are toe rail designs where the bearing surfaces are thin and sharp enough to cause problems, this does not seem to be the norm. Some close up photos showing your toe rail design would help.
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Old 18-07-2016, 17:49   #29
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Re: Snatch Blocks

Savoir,

I think you have a bur on the underside of your extrusion, this has not been my experience. I am have been using a dyneema lead over a concrete edge to keep from damaging my dock lines for the last couple of years. Other than a gradual wearing away of the concreat I haven't seen any issues.

I have also used 1.75mm soft shackles as jib hanks. The sail needed to be replaced before enough chaff was done to the hanks to warrant replacement.
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Old 18-07-2016, 18:57   #30
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Re: Snatch Blocks

Karver KB are fine with just a spectra lock loop thru the center.

And a plain Spectra loop works fine too in the short run.

A block is friendlier to the line that runs thru it. Loops and rings tend to slick the running line over time and I avoid them on stuff that I may later handle with bare hands.

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