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Old 01-07-2009, 13:58   #1
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Sloop to Cutter

Anyone with exp hoisting a staysail off a halyard rather than a forestay?

I don't really want to put a cable in just yet. What sort of spacing for the gap between the headsail and staysail? For building up the area on the deck I was going to use 3' x 18" of 3/8 plastic and a stainless eye bolt.

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Old 01-07-2009, 14:10   #2
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you will need to bond the deck fitting to something structural, a bulkhead or the hull.
spacing for the gap will be partly dtermined by where on the mast you rig the hounds. There are staysails available that are free flying, they will have a wire luff rather than rope, but they will be not as efficient as running a removeable stay. IF you are going to fit a deck fitting anyway, the cost of a removeable stay is nominal.
what size boat?
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Old 01-07-2009, 14:22   #3
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Hound attachment/ base

I have a bulkead aft of the windlass, about 43" from the forestay. It's an anchor access bulkhead, fairly thin prob- 1/2-5/8" mahogany glassed in on the hull top to bottom fairly well. But there is the door access 20"x20" too.

I would probably go with the removable stay, but it needs to be minimal custom work because there are no fabricators where the boat is.

Tell me more about what straps/ss I would need to purchase before going down to the panama islands.

regarding the hounds, I am fearing the job. Drilling into the fiberglass mast seems like work and possible damage to the already strange surface. Are there "hound" straps that go 3/4 around?

Todd
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Old 01-07-2009, 15:21   #4
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Fiberglass Mast???
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Old 01-07-2009, 15:30   #5
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If you decide to install a permanent inner stay seriously consider a Solent Stay, it removes the need for running backstays as it uses the support of the existing backstay.
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Old 01-07-2009, 15:56   #6
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Carbon fiber mast?
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Old 01-07-2009, 16:06   #7
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Originally Posted by captainteacup View Post
Anyone with exp hoisting a staysail off a halyard rather than a forestay?

I don't really want to put a cable in just yet. What sort of spacing for the gap between the headsail and staysail? For building up the area on the deck I was going to use 3' x 18" of 3/8 plastic and a stainless eye bolt.

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Have you considered using a synthetic HM inner stay? I just set up one using Dynex Dux for Coligo. Haven't gotten to test it yet.

Paul L
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Old 02-07-2009, 12:00   #8
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fiberglass mast

Specs;
It's a fiberglass mast 56 feet tall from the deck. It's approximately 17 inches abroad and 9 inches wide. It shows some signs of aging as it's a 1973 mast.

Potential Concerns; mounting
It had a radar mount just above the first spreader and below the highest spreader where the wiring ran through and it creates a potential weakness that I haven't covered. The old radar was taken off but it still has a hole in it about four inches in diameter.

Masthead view;
At the masthead, the plate is solidly mounted and I have a few extra options for attaching something there.

Internet work/ purchase readiness;
I am currently unresearched in my options for attaching the new stay (or originally I wanted to see if anyone has used a halyard)

More project detail/ project restrictions;
I have a good attachment at the base, but the vessel is located offshore in an archipelago with limited resources and in addition to a few other projects need to get underway by a deadline.

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Old 11-07-2009, 16:13   #9
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Hi Cpt Teacup
I have a Cutter rigged Vancouver that circumnavigated in 1990 - 1993.
In my view a cutter stay would be really great, you can now get a furling staysail that wraps around it's own stay and you store it as a 'snake'.
My concern is the attachment at the mast, the stay will need to be parrallel to the forestay and really needs to be supported with some type of backstay, otherwise there will be stresses on the mast it wasn't designed to take, (You REALLY don't want the lot collapsing around you). On my boat (aluminium mast) I don't bother with the running backstays when sailing with all the sails up, however when the wind pipes up and the yankee is furled and the main is reefed and the staysail is pulling well I need the running backstay tensioned quite hard otherwise the mast 'pumps' this is easily done as the leeward main sheet winch (the most powerful winch aboard) is free, it's actually free with the yankee up as its the leeward winch that needs to tension the running backstay.
If you were to have a collar made to fit around the mast with three attachment points one for the staysail forestay and two for the runners it could be made with a few attachments to stop it slipping down without weakening the mast, you would need to have one fastener at the aft edge to go through the mast to keep the aft portion of the collar together so as to not interfear with the sail slides, sounds complicated but not really if you can find a good fabricator.
Best of luck.
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Old 12-07-2009, 20:08   #10
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Hi Cpt Teacup
...My concern is the attachment at the mast, the stay will need to be parrallel to the forestay ...
No real need to have the inner stay parallel to the outer stay, other than maybe aesthetics.

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Old 12-07-2009, 20:52   #11
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Hmm, this whole thing is something that is going to haunt the next owner of your boat. Everytime I fine some wierd "previous owner addition" and try to figure out what he was thinking, I beleive this thread hits the nail on the head.

I mean no disrespect at all, but what you are wanting to do is to "bubba" the design envelope of your boat.

What model and make is your boat?

Why not just learn to sail your sloop to its top efficiency. The sloop is not a sub par rig compared to a cutter. Making a cutter rigged sloop will only make it a half A#$ cutter with not much benefit.


Goodluck and let us know how it turns out.
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Old 12-07-2009, 22:21   #12
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The one in front, that attaches to the stem (the head of the boat), is the headstay and carries the headsail (jib, genoa, or whatever); the one you're considering adding is a forestay, and will carry a (fore)stay sail.
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Old 13-07-2009, 09:25   #13
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Hmm, this whole thing is something that is going to haunt the next owner of your boat. Everytime I fine some wierd "previous owner addition" and try to figure out what he was thinking, I beleive this thread hits the nail on the head.

I mean no disrespect at all, but what you are wanting to do is to "bubba" the design envelope of your boat.

What model and make is your boat?

Why not just learn to sail your sloop to its top efficiency. The sloop is not a sub par rig compared to a cutter. Making a cutter rigged sloop will only make it a half A#$ cutter with not much benefit.


Goodluck and let us know how it turns out.
There are many good reasons to add an inner stay on a cruising boat. It is not to try and turn the boat into a cutter. Today most cruising boats have the headstay on a furler and for all practical purposes this sail does not get changed. Adding an inner stay allows for a heavy air or storm jib to be hanked on that can be used while the headsail is furled. In most cases the added inner stay is removal, ,meaning it can be disconnected at deck level and brought back to the mast to keep it out of the way when not required..

Paul L
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Old 13-07-2009, 10:04   #14
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Think carefully before you do it. Remember, a genoa is going to be a bitch to pull through that slot. I have a cutter now, and am fine with it, but if I were to get another boat, I would seriously consider going back to a sloop.
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Old 13-07-2009, 10:39   #15
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You may consider putting the inner forestay on a Highfield lever so you can easily unclip it and swing it aft. It makes all the difference for passing that Genoa from side to side.

A small hank on sail on the inner forestay is so much better than the inefficient shape of a headsail rolled up to half its size. It’s center of effort is lower and further aft balancing the center of effort of the deeply reefed main. The cutter rig is a very versatile strong rig.
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