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Old 30-06-2012, 01:19   #16
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Re: Slippery Winches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
Sorry to hear knurling was so expensive. I like your idea of 40 grit. How are you turning the drums?
G'Day Celestial,

The knurling quote came from Arco-Hutton winches in Sydney, FWIW.

For our method, you don't turn the drum at all while scritching away with your 40-grit-on-a-stick. You simply press the stick against the drum and work it up and down in one area until you can feel the micro-grooves with your finger, and see them with your eyes. Then rotate the drum a few degrees and repeat. Continue until you have a reasonably uniform pattern of grooves all around the drums surface. Quit and have a beer. Do the next winch... etc. Isn't hard,but takes ten or fifteen minutes per large winch.

For Stumble, considering that each type of winch has a different taper to the drum, the setup time alone seems to suggest a higher price than 25 bucks to knurl a drum. I wonder if that price requires that all the winches are the same model, so that no new setup is required?

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Jim
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Old 30-06-2012, 05:17   #17
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Re: Slippery Winches

This site says knurling must be done carefully or you will eat sheets.
One guy used a metal brush which must have been on a wheel.
I like the brush idea.
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we used to use a light brushing with a SS brush. do it at 45 degrees.
winch drum surface ? - Sailing Anarchy Forums

Quote:
Knurling works. But don't go too deep. Stand by the machinist and tell him when you think the resurfacing texture is about right.
If you knurl too deeply, the drums will ruin your sheets, then some sandpaper on the drum will knock down the abrasivness.

Now that Anderson's ribbed drum pantent has expired, you'll see those features on more winches which grip line and greatly reduce line wear.


Be very careful with knurling, especially on Lewmar winches where you can't get replacement drums. Having tested all sorts of surfaces treatments; the points that are added during the inital part of knurling are the problem; there is no way to get away from getting those points, which will act like hooks and chew the line up. One observation is that no current winch manufacturer uses knurling when making winch drums.

In this case, I chatted with psyklik, and we realized it was cheaper to go with a new pair of #6 winches; my surfacing and anodizing process is around 200.00 per drum.

Bam Miller
Quote:
Be careful of knurling; we have a small machine shop and the knurling pattern is similar to the surface of a file; it is guaranteed to eat your line.
Quote:
Be careful if you add knurling/texture. A friend had this done on his J29 and it started eating sheets in like 3 regattas. Didn't seem too rough, but the sheets got fuzzy after a dozen tacks.
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Old 30-06-2012, 11:45   #18
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Re: Slippery Winches

The machinist here says it doesn't. Aparently the hard part is in the pattern he cuts, not the substrate he is cutting it into. But I couldn't tell you how it's done.
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Old 30-06-2012, 11:50   #19
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Re: Slippery Winches

masking and blasting should give you a pretty nice surface and cheap!
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Old 30-06-2012, 11:55   #20
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Re: Slippery Winches

It works!!









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Would you be up to roughing it up with some 60 grit wet or dry aluminum oxide sand paper? It may not be pretty but it would work.
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Old 30-06-2012, 14:30   #21
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Re: Slippery Winches

Again, FWIW, the "knurling" that Arco-Hutton was proposing was NOT a typical diamond pattern knurl, but resulted in a series of vertical grooves separated by lands which were perhaps 1-1.5 mm wide. They claimed good performance and no extra wear on the sheets, and I tend to believe them. It was just the cost that put me off!

I definitely agree that the typical diamond knurl (which is designed to give good grip for fingers on knobs, etc) would tear hell out of your sheets. Avoid.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 30-06-2012, 15:26   #22
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Re: Slippery Winches

Did you recently purchase new sheets? I have new Harken Winches, and purchased a varity of synthetic sheets. The covers seem MUCH slippier than just a Sta-Set cover. I have to wrap the droms full to get the self tailer to work. Coulod be a combination of the Harken Winches and the covers of the sheets.
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Old 30-06-2012, 17:12   #23
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Re: Slippery Winches

Have you thought of marking them vertically with repeated imprints of a sharp cold chisel? It would take some time but would not cost anything.
Regards,
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Old 30-06-2012, 19:38   #24
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Re: Slippery Winches

Wow, I never dreamed this would elicit so many responses or that there would be so many ideas. Thank-you all very much for your thoughtful suggestions.
My wife was just asking if anyone has tried acid etching? I think I like the idea of masking/sandblasting but wonder how controllable that would be. Maybe I should try the sandpaper or wire wheel first so I can see just how much roughing up is required. Then when that wears smooth again, go for sandblasting.
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Old 30-06-2012, 19:45   #25
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Re: Slippery Winches

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Again, FWIW, the "knurling" that Arco-Hutton was proposing was NOT a typical diamond pattern knurl, but resulted in a series of vertical grooves separated by lands which were perhaps 1-1.5 mm wide. They claimed good performance and no extra wear on the sheets, and I tend to believe them. It was just the cost that put me off!

I definitely agree that the typical diamond knurl (which is designed to give good grip for fingers on knobs, etc) would tear hell out of your sheets. Avoid.
My spinnaker primaries are Antal winches with vertical knurling. They almost hold too well. A diamond knurl would be overkill.
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Old 30-06-2012, 19:46   #26
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Re: Slippery Winches

If there are any people in your area that restore vintage cars, they will know a sandblaster that understands finnese; you dont want someone who blasts bridges for a living! Very controllable, you can mask with anything that is rubbery. I've even used rubber electical tape... but that isnt really sticky enough for some jobs. It's likely a 10 minute job once masked.
I know there are a lot of HotRod/street shows in BC in the summer. Attend one and ask those guys! The only guys pickier than sailors are hot rod builders!
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:30   #27
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Not sure how handy you are but no one has mentioned this and it is easy to do. I was a machine repair machinists and one of tricks I use to do for ruffing up a surface to grip different textures of parts was to use a air engraving tool. They come in electric as well. The have carbide tips. You could do vertical lines or swirl. Or take and do small dimples all over the drum surface. This process does displace metal as once done you might want to take a emery stone and knock the edges off. If our winches ever get to a point as yours. This is what I will end up doing.
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Old 02-10-2012, 09:45   #28
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Re: Slippery Winches

I have barriant 21 winches which were working fine until I bought new sheets...

I will try to wear down the sheets before I sacrifice the winches.


Quote:
Originally Posted by D.D. View Post
Did you recently purchase new sheets? I have new Harken Winches, and purchased a varity of synthetic sheets. The covers seem MUCH slippier than just a Sta-Set cover. I have to wrap the droms full to get the self tailer to work. Coulod be a combination of the Harken Winches and the covers of the sheets.
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Old 01-02-2014, 18:41   #29
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Re: Slippery Winches

I have Arco 65 winches (and others) that look a bit tatty with corrosion. I am thinking of having them blasted back and re-chromed. I have asked what grade/name/chemical composition of chrome is best for this and the advice returned was 'marine grade'. Phew, I never would have thought of that! Does anybody know if there is a more definitive description of the chrome used for this purpose?
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:10   #30
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Re: Slippery Winches

I assume they are chromed bronze? I wonder if it's possible to strip the chrome and leave them bronze..?
I'm sorry I dont have the answer to your question, but my guess would be the finish smoothness and number of allowable defects is what defines chroming.... not so much the name of the chrome. I could be wrong though. I believe you want Hard Chrome and the thicker the chrome the more it costs, but you do want a minimum thickness specified by your chroming source.
A quick Google turned up 3 types Hard Chrome, Hexavalent Chrome and Trivalent Chrome.
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