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Old 19-09-2015, 00:29   #1
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Question Sleeving on Fore Stay to Protect Sheets

Hi All
As a pretty new sailor could I ask about PVC or other sleeves for fore stays to protect head sail sheets. Currently I don't have anything in place and sometimes I need to manually move the sheets around the stay when they jam while tacking.

First question; If I undo the fore stay to fit a sleeve then tension it to the exact place it is currently tensioned to, will I be causing any interference with how the rigging is set up? i.e. should rigging be tensioned in a specific order?

Secondly I see many people use PVC to protect head sail sheets on the fore stay, would a stainless steel tube work OK instead - would be more durable, but might wear on the stay/rigging hardware?

Many thanks for your advice
Saltaire
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Old 19-09-2015, 03:31   #2
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Re: Sleeving on Fore Stay to Protect Sheets

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, SaltAir.

A snap-on split cable/shroud cover in UV resistant plastic.
http://www.downwindmarine.com/Davis-...-90890566.html
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Old 19-09-2015, 19:42   #3
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Re: Sleeving on Fore Stay to Protect Sheets

Hi GordMay
Thanks for your welcome and helpful suggestion. I will check out my local suppliers, Regards Saltair
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Old 19-09-2015, 20:37   #4
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Re: Sleeving on Fore Stay to Protect Sheets

PEX tubing, or similar, works great and you can get it at your local hardware store. Just slit it and slip it over the stay. Ive had some on my side stays for many years...no fading at all.
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Old 19-09-2015, 22:02   #5
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Re: Sleeving on Fore Stay to Protect Sheets

A forestay is the stay at the bow of the boat that the luff of the headsail is attached to. The sheets should not be contacting the forestay. Do you mean the "shrouds", which are essentially sidestays? If so, PVC pipe is sometimes used, but instead you might look at using lower-profile knots to attach your sheets to the clew of the headsail. Look at the "buntline hitch" for one example.
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Old 19-09-2015, 23:32   #6
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Re: Sleeving on Fore Stay to Protect Sheets

Hi Paul
Thanks for helping with this; am still building my knowledge; The stay I am trying to describe is the inner stay on the forward point of the mast; This stay on which the sheets catch goes from the fore deck just where the cabin slopes to deck level and attaches 1/2 - 2/3 up the mast - Perhaps an inner fore stay or a forward stay - not sure. Not intended for a sail, just to stabilise the mast.

I want to sleeve the stay and the hardware attaching it to the deck; am deciding whether to use a split sleeve as most suggest here or detach the stay at the deck, slide a tube over and re-attach. The useful learning for me would be to find out whether detaching then attaching and re-tensioning the stay would disrupt the overall rig tension - i.e. can I disconnect and them re-tension the stay to where it was without having to adjust the rest of the rigging
Regards
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Old 20-09-2015, 02:31   #7
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Re: Sleeving on Fore Stay to Protect Sheets

Greetings SaltAir, & welcome to CF.
The term you're likely looking for, to describe the stay in question, is "Babystay". And odds are, if you take some fairly precise measurements of the gaps in the turnbuckle, between the threaded ends of the shrouds, & the center web of your turnbuckle, you should be good (knock on wood), if you reinstall things to the same settings. After putting a piece of PVC overtop of your Babystay.

I'd suggest staying away from using a piece of metal tubing in this application, especially stainless tubing, as, yes, they'd be FAR harder on the stay. And lessen it's life by quite a bit.

PS: This would also be a good opportunity to start to doing some learning on tuning your rig.

For example, odds are that someone on your dock (likely someone with a racing background) has a Loos gauge, which is a tool used to menasure the tension in rigging wire. And with one (borrowed, along with the manual, & possibly some live help) you can learn how to measure your shrouds tension. Including that of your Babystay. Thus, in addition to the precise measuring which I denoted, you can also do a before & after measurement to confirm that you re-set the stay correctly, after adding it's "plumbing".
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Old 20-09-2015, 08:04   #8
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Re: Sleeving on Fore Stay to Protect Sheets

Since you mentioned you were a new sailor here's something you can try next time you're out. Make sure you let your foresail tack. By that I mean let it do the work. If you try and pull it through the fore triangle things get hung up all over. If you let the wind push it through, the sail will be "folded" more and slip past your baby stay much easier. Typing from my phone so I hope this is making sense.

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Old 20-09-2015, 08:41   #9
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Re: Sleeving on Fore Stay to Protect Sheets

Defender sells wood sleeves that are two pieces joined together with lashings and roll so your sheets don't hang up. IMO, superior to pvc,which the sun will destroy, l or plastic, which the sun will destroy and break into annoying little pieces and wind up all over your deck. Look in defender catalog.
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Old 20-09-2015, 09:05   #10
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Re: Sleeving on Fore Stay to Protect Sheets

One question what vessel is this on? Actually sounds to me if intact you have an inner stay as you describe. Are you sure you don't actually have a cutter rigged boat?
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Old 20-09-2015, 10:00   #11
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Re: Sleeving on Fore Stay to Protect Sheets

my boat came to me with white pvc pipe split/sawn lengthwise and wood plugs at each end that are split and then bound -- a couple with hose clips--supposedlt they have been on there for 12 plus years and can be easily reused since they are in excellent condition. inexpensive and effective
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Old 20-09-2015, 20:02   #12
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Re: Sleeving on Fore Stay to Protect Sheets

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltAir View Post
Hi All
As a pretty new sailor could I ask about PVC or other sleeves for fore stays to protect head sail sheets. Currently I don't have anything in place and sometimes I need to manually move the sheets around the stay when they jam while tacking.

First question; If I undo the fore stay to fit a sleeve then tension it to the exact place it is currently tensioned to, will I be causing any interference with how the rigging is set up? i.e. should rigging be tensioned in a specific order?

Secondly I see many people use PVC to protect head sail sheets on the fore stay, would a stainless steel tube work OK instead - would be more durable, but might wear on the stay/rigging hardware?

Many thanks for your advice
Saltaire
I guess you mean the lower shrouds that sometimes go a little way forward to chain plates near the gunwale. I use purpose made split PVC tubes on all 3 shrouds on each side of my boat. They snap together. Chandlery shops don't usually stock them but could get them in for you. Otherwise a specialist rigger could get them in. They act like a roller and ropes don't snag. They are also good to hold onto when you're going forward. Also I think they look good.


You could equally use stock PVC tube if you can find a suitable small diameter. I wouldn't use any sort of metal tube. My split PVC tubes don't show any sign of wear after quite a few years, but it's better for them to wear than the rigging.


The split type are very easy to fit. If you use ordinary tube, you can mark where the wire meets the rigging screw using a couple of turns of masking tape and undo the shroud to fit the tube, then tighten again to the masking tape. Don't leave the masking tape there afterwards as it can lead to corrosion. If you do one shroud at a time, the other rigging will hold up your mast. If you ever need to loosen all the shrouds on one side at once you can tie a halyard down to that side.


You also asked about setting up your rigging.


Basically you get a sail slide and put it in the main sail track and attach a metal tape measure (with a light line to pull it down again). Attach the main halyard to the sail slide with some thin line.


Starting with the cap shrouds (they are the top ones) you haul the tape measure up the mast to where the shrouds are attached and measure down to the chain plate on each side. For the mast to be straight, you should have the same measurement on each side. If they are different loosen one rigging screw half a turn and tighten the other side half a turn. Repeat until they are the same measurement.


Then do the same with the lower shrouds in turn. It's a good idea to recheck the cap shrouds again after that.


Then sight up the sail track and see if the mast looks straight. If your mast is correctly stepped in the center of the boat it should now be straight and perpendicular. Normally there would be a slight rake or slope backwards.


The rake of the mast has probably already been correctly set by the forestay tension, so you can usually leave the forestay alone.


If you want to you can adjust the back stay, depending on the yacht, while you are sailing. Basically tighten it going to windward and slacken a little running. Most cruisers I think set it and forget it.


As for the actual tension you set; if you can, wander around a marina and twang the rigging of similar boats and set yours the same. Some yachts do sail better with the lower shrouds slightly slacker than the uppers, but you can't go wrong if you make them all the same.


I'm sure there's lots of yachts sailing around with their masts sloping a little to one side. They would sail significantly better if they were straight side to side.
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Old 21-09-2015, 00:47   #13
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Re: Sleeving on Fore Stay to Protect Sheets

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltAir View Post
Hi Paul
Thanks for helping with this; am still building my knowledge; The stay I am trying to describe is the inner stay on the forward point of the mast; This stay on which the sheets catch goes from the fore deck just where the cabin slopes to deck level and attaches 1/2 - 2/3 up the mast - Perhaps an inner fore stay or a forward stay - not sure. Not intended for a sail, just to stabilise the mast.

I want to sleeve the stay and the hardware attaching it to the deck; am deciding whether to use a split sleeve as most suggest here or detach the stay at the deck, slide a tube over and re-attach. The useful learning for me would be to find out whether detaching then attaching and re-tensioning the stay would disrupt the overall rig tension - i.e. can I disconnect and them re-tension the stay to where it was without having to adjust the rest of the rigging
Regards
OK, this is an inner forestay, a baby stay, or something similar. I actually don't know the difference in terminology, but my boat is cutter-rigged and has what I call an inner forestay.

My jibsheets sometimes hang up on the inner forestay. Smaller knots for the sheet attachments do help. I usually have my staysail furled on this stay, and the bulk of the sail also helps, but doesn't always prevent the hang-up. This is more often a problem in light air, rather in a brisk breeze. The problem isn't usually the sheets, but the sail itself getting draped around the inner forestay. Timing in the tacks -- knowing when to release and pull the jibsheets -- makes a difference. Sometimes it still hangs up and I or a crewmember run forward to help the sail get through the slot. You can also partially furl the jib before tacking, then unfurl when it gets through. Not a great solution when racing though!

Some people do detach this inner stay, using something like a "highfield lever" for the deck attachment. Mine is permanently rigged. I wouldn't put rollers or tubing on the inner forestay, since you can't really hoist a sail on it then. If you aren't planning to use it for a sail, then just remove it (check with a rigger first, to make sure this stay isn't needed to keep the rig standing.)
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Old 21-09-2015, 02:55   #14
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Re: Sleeving on Fore Stay to Protect Sheets

Baby stays (and this is what it sounds like you have) are often fitted on masts with single lower shrouds. Their primary purpose is to stop the mast 'pumping" (oscillating back and forth in a fore and aft direction). Secondary purpose in race oriented rigs is to induce mast bend for sail shaping reasons. In neither case is the tension terribly critical, so simply using tape to mark where the rigging screw is set before removing it will get you close enough when replacing it.

However, IME putting a small diameter roller on the stay won't help much with the hangups you describe. Reducing the size of the knots in the sheets and perfecting your technique are better ways of attacking the problem in the long run. If you use a roller with sufficient diameter to really help, the added windage will surely not help your windward performance (if that matters to you). Looks crappy too, to my eye!

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 21-09-2015, 04:14   #15
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Re: Sleeving on Fore Stay to Protect Sheets

Thank you all again each of your comments has added to my understanding. i.e. answered my questions and added knowledge which I did not have. Thanks again for sharing; glad I did ask. Our area here is excellent sailing, a natural harbour, a large sound and good challenging conditions beyond. Regards
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