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Old 03-02-2007, 14:59   #1
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Sizing a genoa winch

I am adding a spinnaker to my Tartan 34c. Right now I have non- self-tailing Barient 22s as my genoa winches. I think they are a little undersized and really want self-tailing. So my plan is to move these back, and get new genoa winches.

Using the handy winch cross-reference chart I found on this forum, I see that my 22s roughly equate to what would be a Lewmar 34. Regrettably, this chart doesn't list the 22s, and Lewmar doesn't offer a 34. But I interpolated that from hoping the numbers and sizing are somewhat linear.

http://www.kiwiyachting.co.nz/products/barient.htm

When I go to the Lewmar (or Harken, same results) website and use their sizing guides, I am told I need 44s for "typical" sailing and 48s if I'm going to be doing long distance cruising or expect heavy weather.

But, bringing up a comment often mentioned in these forums, winches are REALLY expensive. So I was hoping to get some advice from those with practical experience of really using winches, on which winch really I need.

Can I get by with a 40? or should i take the advice of the web page that is selling me things and go with a 44 or 48?

Thanks in advance,
Mark
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Old 03-02-2007, 15:55   #2
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A 40 is probably really small for that boat and would be undersized, a 44 should be fine.

However if you have room for the 48s and can justify the money I would do those for the following reason.

Reason being especially if you tend to fly a larger headsail when the wind picks up you will really really appreciate that oversized winch. Also if you have 'small' crew they will also really appreciate the larger winches.

FWIW I ran Harken's compusec on a Tarten 34 and for windy sailing they recommended the 44s.
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Old 03-02-2007, 15:59   #3
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My 33 ft CSY has Lewmar 44's. It's a good size and a two speed is called for I think as well. You could go one size smaller but when it's blowing you'll work hard enough with a 44. Harkens numbers should come about the same. 44 is not oversized with a big jib.
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Old 03-02-2007, 16:10   #4
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Jon: Yep, Harken said 44s for both, and Lewmar said 44 or 48s. And I think 40s might be undersized too, but they are bigger than what I've got, and I can usually make do. But when my 155 is really pulling, the sheet wins.

Paul: if you have 44s and think they are appropriate that is good news. When you are out in a blow with a big genoa out, do you think they're undersized at all?

I plan to race in the Annapolis to Newport Race this June, and it is the excuse I need to add a spinnaker. (My current Barient 22s will be my spin winches, and I am shopping for new genoa winches.) But my normal sailing ground is the Chesapeake. I guess I need to buy for the worst case scenario.

Thanks for your thoughts guys,
Mark
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Old 03-02-2007, 17:28   #5
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I'm certainly no expert, but...

I'm the sort of guy who puts so much thought and research into what I really need on our boat ... that by the time I'm really to put my money down... the item I'm specifically after has often been superceeded with something newer, better and (occasionally) cheaper.

If Aye were in a position to be wanting more and bigger sheet winches... I might be inclined to think about it long enough to have saved enough money to afford a pair of electric sheet winches.

In several recent deliveries, I have found that in addition to easy sheet adjustments, they sure are nice for effortless hoisting of the main, furling the genoa, smooth tacking & gybing, going aloft, hoisting the dinghy and a host of other heavy nautical tasks.

Feel free to call me Lazy but I have come to appreciate push-button sailing, especially as my wife and I grow older.

And I bet they don't cost much more than high-end 3 speed, manual winches.

To Life!

Kirk

PS - With the cost of new winches now-a-daze... one could probably fly down to Florida, find a nice pair of second-hand winches, enjoy a warm winter holiday... and still save a heap of money!
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Old 03-02-2007, 17:45   #6
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Buoy, I agree that would be better. However, I can't help but think that "that's something else to break... out there."

It will be such a leap for me just to get to self tailing that I think electric winches would be too much decadence.

"Honey, tail this line for me, would you?"

Mark
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Old 03-02-2007, 23:01   #7
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I use #48 with a 550 square foot genoa on a fast catamaran. When the wind is really honking at 20 knots or more, it's all I can do to bring in the genoa with a double winch handle. For your boat, 48 is overkill; 40-44 is the right ballpark, depending on your age and fitness level.
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Old 04-02-2007, 10:48   #8
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"40-44 is the right ballpark, depending on your age and fitness level."

Evan, that is a great point. I'm only 37 now and in pretty good shape. But I don't see myself trading up my Tartan for many years. Maybe I also need to size winches for myself when I'm a little older. Maybe I can convert what I get to electric then.

Well, it is Sunday afternoon now. My girl is winterized and has her boom partially disassembled as I am fixing my out-haul. But I can still go sailing with some frostbite boats. What's a little ice on the deck?

Mark
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Old 08-02-2007, 10:49   #9
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You'll never hear complaints about a winch being too large or too powerful.
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Old 08-02-2007, 10:55   #10
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Yeah, but you can hear me squeal when I write that check.

Mark
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Old 08-02-2007, 11:39   #11
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Aloha Mark,
I've never been disappointed by eBay. There are some Harken 44 self tailers of aluminum being offered for considerably less than Andersens. This is not self product promotion. Just want to let you know that good deals are out there if these winches are something you are looking for.
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Old 08-02-2007, 11:50   #12
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Good morning John,

I really don't see much of a difference, in my experience and research, in Harken and Lewmar, so I'd be happy to lean that direction. Is your comment about some specific winches, such as for sale on Ebay? or was that a comment about an Andersen alternative?

Thanks,
Mark
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Old 08-02-2007, 13:38   #13
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Andersen is a superior winch IMHO but if I could buy a Harken or Lewmar for considerably less money I'd be all over it.

BTW, if anyone has a decent set of self tailers that would work as primaries on a Ranger 33 I'd like to hear from you.
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Old 08-02-2007, 15:21   #14
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Aloha Mark and Island Planet,
I browse eBay at least twice a day in search of a Lewmar or Harken 52 or 54 self tailer. That's how I came across the 44 listing. If you go to eBay Motors and type in "Harken Winch" the 44 ASTs will show up either in their primary list or down below that in the Buy it Now area. If you can't find them let me know and I'll help some more. The listing says there are 9 available and they appear to be new.
Kind Regards,
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Old 08-02-2007, 15:29   #15
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Just checked again and here it is:
eBay Motors: Harken - 2 SPEED ALUMINUM SELF TAILING WINCH, B44.2STA (item 250012414145 end time Feb-21-07 15:51:49 PST)
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