Single Line Reefing Problems

[nigel1]

Bene 473, the first two reefs are single lines, the third reef is two lines.
The single line reef arrangement is a line lead from cockpit to mast, through a lead close to gooseneck, up to a block on the luff, back down to the forward end of boom, through the boom to the aft end, up to the block on the leach, and back down to secure to the boom.
I have occasional problems with the second reef, when I take in the second reef, the luff block sometimes lands on top of the luff block of the first reef, causing the block to not sit right, which prevents the reef line running through easily. This results in the luff pulled down to the boom, but the clew is way to high. To fix, I have to go to the mast and dick about with the blocks to get them to sit properly. This kind of detracts from the whoie point of single line reefing.
Any ideas on how to prevent this?

[s/v Moondancer]

Single line reefing was always too complicated for me...I rigged single line reefing and a tack-downhaul all back to the cockpit and the line clutches.

Allowed me to reef rapidly when caught by Florida squalls.

That Bene. must look out of place in the Manchester Ship Canal you need to move it to the Caribbean where I am!

[Greggegner]

We had single line reefing on our previous boat and loved it. I could add a reef in about 1 min. It takes some work to get the lines and blocks where you want them, but it is worth it. I suggest focusing on the second and third reef working well. Those are the one you need when it really starts to blow.

[Captain Bill]

On my boat the reefing lines are on opposite sides of the boom which prevents the problem you are describing, though I'm not sure I clearly understand your issue. It its the luff blocks that are interfering or the leech blocks? Clearly you said luff, but I'm not sure I quite understand how the luff blocks cause the clew to be too high. I can see where it would cause the tack to be too high.

I've got a similar problem with the clew of my second reef, but I've decided it's because the block on the boom is not located in the correct position. Both of the clew blocks on the boom are located near the aft end of the boom in the same position though on opposite sides of the boom. This is not a major issue for the first reef as the leech is pretty much straight up from the postion of the boom blocks so the first reef line pulls almost straight down. The position of the second reef point on the sail is substantially forward of the boom block position. I haven't measured it but it looks to be about 3.5 feet. The result is that the clew never gets near the boom when the second reef is in because as the line gets tight it pulls more on the horizontal vector than the vertical vector. The result is that the foot gets very tight, the clew stays about 2 feet above the boom and and the leech is very loose. I've put fixing this on my list of projects. Currently the end of the reefing lines are secured to the boom back near the boom block. To fix it I'm considering two options. The first is to simply move the attachment point of the second reef line forward and leave the boom block in place. The second is to move the boom block for the second reef forward so that it pulls almost vertically. I think the point should be a little aft of diectly below the second reefing point on the sail just to keep some tension on the foot. I would welcome any opinions on which fix would be best.

[ggray]

I don't have single line reefing, but have spent some mental energy to see if I could come up with a plan for doing so. So there is zip for experience here.

But I'd think the simplicity of the line thru a grommet, and leaving out the blocks would make more sense. Or would this not generate enough tension for the leech? I'd figure on putting final tension with halyard.

[ggray]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

I've got a similar problem with the clew of my second reef, but I've decided it's because the block on the boom is not located in the correct position. Both of the clew blocks on the boom are located near the aft end of the boom in the same position though on opposite sides of the boom. This is not a major issue for the first reef as the leech is pretty much straight up from the postion of the boom blocks so the first reef line pulls almost straight down. The position of the second reef point on the sail is substantially forward of the boom block position. I haven't measured it but it looks to be about 3.5 feet. The result is that the clew never gets near the boom when the second reef is in because as the line gets tight it pulls more on the horizontal vector than the vertical vector. The result is that the foot gets very tight, the clew stays about 2 feet above the boom and and the leech is very loose. I've put fixing this on my list of projects. Currently the end of the reefing lines are secured to the boom back near the boom block. To fix it I'm considering two options. The first is to simply move the attachment point of the second reef line forward and leave the boom block in place. The second is to move the boom block for the second reef forward so that it pulls almost vertically. I think the point should be a little aft of diectly below the second reefing point on the sail just to keep some tension on the foot. I would welcome any opinions on which fix would be best.

Option 1 is how my reef lines are rigged.

[nigel1]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

On my boat the reefing lines are on opposite sides of the boom which prevents the problem you are describing, though I'm not sure I clearly understand your issue. It its the luff blocks that are interfering or the leech blocks? Clearly you said luff, but I'm not sure I quite understand how the luff blocks cause the clew to be too high. I can see where it would cause the tack to be too high.

Bill,
what happens is the luff block gets down to the boom, and sometimes lands on the luff block of the first reef block, the block then does not line up correctly for the reef line lead and I cannot get the reef line to pull in any more, which leaves the clew loose. I'll then have to go to the mast, work the first reef luff block out of the way, re-orientate the second reef block in the correct position, go back to cockpit, and then can crank in the rest of the line.

When I put in a thrid reef last year, I used for the liff a single line to a grommet, and for the leach, a block on the sail, that system works way better, and I may convert the second reef system to this.

[nigel1]

Originally Posted by s/v Moondancer

That Bene. must look out of place in the Manchester Ship Canal you need to move it to the Caribbean where I am!

Not had the boat on the Canal yet, its quite expensive for a run from Liverpool to Manchester.
When I was apprentice on small cargo ships, we regularly called at Salford docks. The biggest danger was from the local brats lobbing bricks and paving slabs of the high level bridges on to the ship. Hate to think what that would do to a tupperware boat.

Caribbean is planned for in 3 years time

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by nigel1

Bill,
what happens is the luff block gets down to the boom, and sometimes lands on the luff block of the first reef block, the block then does not line up correctly for the reef line lead and I cannot get the reef line to pull in any more, which leaves the clew loose. I'll then have to go to the mast, work the first reef luff block out of the way, re-orientate the second reef block in the correct position, go back to cockpit, and then can crank in the rest of the line.

When I put in a thrid reef last year, I used for the liff a single line to a grommet, and for the leach, a block on the sail, that system works way better, and I may convert the second reef system to this.

OK I think I see the problem now. I guess having the first and second reef lines on opposite sides of the boom prevents that from happening on my boat.

[nigel1]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

OK I think I see the problem now. I guess having the first and second reef lines on opposite sides of the boom prevents that from happening on my boat.

Think I have it sorted now. Step one is to disregard the bit about not having to go to the mast. After 2 days of hard sailing I found the following worked well
1) Ease traveller and sheet
2) Slack the 1st reef line
3) Go to mast and push/work the 1st reef luff/tack block to the port side of the boom (block is fixed to the stbd side of the sail)
4) Back to the cockpit, ease main halyard and crank down the second reef line.
5) When the second reef luff/tack block is about 1 foot above the boom, stopper the halyard and crank the second reef line until the clew block hits the boom
6) Ease halyard and continue to crank the second reef line the luff/tack block to the boom, and then harden up on the halyard.

It worked well for me, PITA having to go to the mast but at least this way I know this way its going to work.