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Old 29-09-2008, 02:46   #31
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Question Sheet swivel shackles?

I was following the thread on shackles for sheets with interest. I have an annoying problem: when the clew flogs if there's slack on the lazy sheet then the sheets tend to wrap around each other. Unwrapping requires furling the sail and a lengthy and wet trip to the foredeck. I have used a swivel snatch shackle on the old boat I had (Pearson 30) now on a bigger boat I'm somewhat reluctant. Any ideas?
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Old 29-09-2008, 04:52   #32
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Originally Posted by Eldad Zeira View Post
... I have an annoying problem: when the clew flogs if there's slack on the lazy sheet then the sheets tend to wrap around each other. Unwrapping requires furling the sail and a lengthy and wet trip to the foredeck ... Any ideas?
Greetings, and WELCOME aboard Eldad.
You might try trimming the headsail, so it doesn’t flog.
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Old 29-09-2008, 04:55   #33
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From a tightarse point of view, knots are free
From a racing point of view knots are light

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Old 29-09-2008, 06:24   #34
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When in doubt about knots or tieing sheets, halyards, etc., I frequently check Brion Toss' "Riggers Apprentice" for suggestions and valuable tips. In this case, I quote his second preference recommendation:
"First and foremost you have to attach the sheet to the sail. Most people tie on the sheets with Bowlines, and that's okay except that Bowlines frequently hang up on shrouds and stays in mid-tack. To minimize this, tie the port sheet left-handed and the starboard sheet right-handed. Another problem with Bowlines in these days of slippery, stiff, synthetic lines in Bowlines can come untied. A locking tuck will fix this."
He also recommends a more complicated "Brummel Splice" for braid only and Eyesplices for braided or three-strand line. He suggests that shackles should not be a choice in this situation because they are frighteningly dangerous. I sure agree.
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Old 29-09-2008, 06:58   #35
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I prefer a Larks Head or whats called a Cow Hitch. It cant shake loose and it has minimal chance of snagging compared to a bowline. It has less mass than a flogging bowline as well.

When I bought Frolic this cow hitch was on her headsail. I had to cut it loose. Also if you want to change headsails. Then you have to run one side the length of the boat if you can get it loose. It does have less tendency to hang up though.
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Old 29-09-2008, 07:42   #36
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From the perspective of a racing bowman of some years, shackles are a bad idea. Getting clunked in the head by a foresail clew is bad enough without extra hunks of metal swinging around there.

Bowlines or cow hitch. I prefer bowlines since sometimes you need to move one line at a time in adverse conditions.
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Old 29-09-2008, 08:51   #37
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Shackles for Sheets

OK I got the message didnt like the shackle idea anyway but should probably start from the beginning.
I have 2 pairs of tracks for the Genoa fairleads - inside and outside of the shrouds, and like to use them for close haul work / running respectively. This works very well until I change point and want to change the track on same side. My technique is to take the lazy sheet and walk it around the shrouds to thread thru the block on the weather side. Problem is I have a single winch on each side so I do have to release one of the sheets before I winch in the other - during which time the sail flaps and the sheets wap around each other. I'll also add that I often sail solo and use the autopilot during such changes.
I wonder if there's a better technique to do that?
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Old 29-09-2008, 17:02   #38
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We have 2 sets of cars also but we don't swap cars unless we are swapping sails.

You could swap the lazy sheet out while there is tension on the working sheet, tack and then change the new lazy sheet. This way you don't flog the sail, and if you are close hauled the clew should be in easy reach.
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Old 29-09-2008, 18:06   #39
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Aloha Jack,
All it takes is one good knock in the head, neck, shoulder, arm or anywhere below the waste and you'll know why folks don't use shackles on their jib sheets. On a good sized jib they are deadly.

It takes me very little time to tie a bowline and less time than using a regular shackle. I can nearly tie one as fast as fastening a snap shackle. With a little practice you'll do that too.

Kind regards,

JohnL
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Old 30-09-2008, 06:30   #40
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Slightly different approach

I have held off posting to this thread because I use a somewhat different approach. As I have not seen anyone using it, I sort of assume there is something wrong with my approach but it has always worked for me .

My 14 mm sheet is one piece with an loop sewn and seized in at the mid point. I have a 8 mm tail attached to the clew (with a bowline on a bight). This leaves two lengths of 8 mm line on the clew about a foot long. (BTW, do you like the mixture of metric and imperial ) This double tail is then attached to the loop in the sheet with a double sheet bend.

Being a double sheet bend, I have never had difficultly undoing it even when it has been tensioned with days and days of sailing.

The original idea was that the tails would be replaced as it wore of chaffed but I never did have to replace them. Each headsail had its own tail attached permanently.
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Old 30-09-2008, 07:00   #41
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Wotname - sounds interesting as eachsail would be stored with just it's tails hanging loose. You'd still have to tie two knots during sail changes I guess.

We have a little baby-stay that loves to snag our genny lines with just their 2 bowlines. Having extra knots on the clew would create more hang-ups for us, I think. I'd really like to go with a single line and a cows hitch but my partner still likes having 2 colors. Maybe it's time he learned port from starboard - LOL...

However glad it works for you...
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Old 30-09-2008, 07:59   #42
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Almost.... I only tie one knot but using both tails held together to form the double bend around the permanent bight in the sheet. I started of with just a single tail on the clew (using a bowline to attach to the clew) and then the double sheet bend to the sheet but was always worried about the bowline possibly undoing itself. The double tail attached to the clew with the bowline on a bight seem more elegant and impossible to self undo as both tails where now attached to the sheet.

Try painting one side deck green and the other red - that should help your crew mate - or at least intimate him enough to get over his memory problems
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