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Old 12-10-2017, 20:15   #46
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Re: Seriously, why do people like in mast furling?

DH, thanks for the well thought out response. I do the majority of my sailing in the Chesapeake and surrounding areas of the East Coast. It's good to think about from others perspective.

Also I care about upwind performance with most of my past being racing. In fact down wind is one of my least favorite point of sail, unless I'm wing and wing.

Maybe I am a bit more pessimistic than I should be... I'm rebuilding my entire engine and carrying a spare on board (disassembled)
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Old 12-10-2017, 20:25   #47
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Re: Seriously, why do people like in mast furling?

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Originally Posted by FutureStories View Post
DH, thanks for the well thought out response. I do the majority of my sailing in the Chesapeake and surrounding areas of the East Coast. It's good to think about from others perspective.

Also I care about upwind performance with most of my past being racing. In fact down wind is one of my least favorite point of sail, unless I'm wing and wing.

Maybe I am a bit more pessimistic than I should be... I'm rebuilding my entire engine and carrying a spare on board (disassembled)
Sailing around a bay and near-coastal areas at that latitude, in-mast furling probably doesn't make much sense. You probably never sail in anything above a F6, am I right? And if most of your sailing is in summer in F3 or F4, the lack of roach will hurt.



Before carrying around a spare engine, you might want to think of what the weight will do to sailing performance.
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Old 12-10-2017, 22:16   #48
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Re: Seriously, why do people like in mast furling?

Prior to owning a inmast furler I was that" experienced guy.. Lol" that wouldn't choose to have one because they jam etc, and was happy to give my opinion.... prejudice based on zero experience!

I've now had one for 12mths and 7500nm.

Most that criticise them don't own one, or haven't much experience sailing with one.

Because I was scared of mine (very) when I first purchased my boat I asked every single person I came across that had one "do you like it" every single one of them liked their system, most of these people are full time cruisers and some are very long distance cruisers.

I've also asked people about their in boom furlers , none so far have been overly thrilled due to the need to be into the wind to furl well, finicky. I have had NO experience with boom furling.

My opinion through my experience with inmast furling is, most people's fears regarding jamming is irrational emotion, not based on experience. If statistics were available I believe they would show this. Jamming is really only possible on the way out, it's not the end of the world unless you keep cranking on, also you aren't generally letting sail out when weather's getting nasty. Performance costs? I don't thing they're as significant as some would claim.

My only concern with my sparcraft furlers is the load on the furling line when furling downwind, I'm concerned I'll bust the line. I'm planning on replacing the line with spectra.

My initial fears were over exaggerated as many opinions here are.

Now in saying the above I would most likely choose a fully batterned roachy main given the choice BUT it certainly wouldn't be the deciding factor when it come to purchasing, and to be honest it would be more based on the look of a nice batterned main over the triangular rag.. Lol

Best to ask people that have done many nm's with one, they are the qualified opinions.... not the guy that "saw ONE jam once".
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Old 12-10-2017, 23:21   #49
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Re: Seriously, why do people like in mast furling?

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Originally Posted by FutureStories View Post
DH, thanks for the well thought out response. I do the majority of my sailing in the Chesapeake and surrounding areas of the East Coast. It's good to think about from others perspective.

Also I care about upwind performance with most of my past being racing. In fact down wind is one of my least favorite point of sail, unless I'm wing and wing.

Maybe I am a bit more pessimistic than I should be... I'm rebuilding my entire engine and carrying a spare on board (disassembled)
So My understanding is that you've never actually used in-mast furling?

We broke a main halyard once on our Hunter using a Profurl boom furling system, operator error which was a PITA to fix, and the folks on "Britican" an Oyster 56 jammed their main halyard into the masthead pulley when it somehow jumped off using their slab reefing system according to their blog, and that was also a huge PITA to repair. So problems can and do happen with boom and slab furling systems too.

Maybe you should get out and try the in-mast furling system before all the criticizing. We've actually owned and used all three systems and you don't see me dissing any of them.
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Old 12-10-2017, 23:37   #50
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Re: Seriously, why do people like in mast furling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by daletournier View Post
Prior to owning a inmast furler I was that" experienced guy.. Lol" that wouldn't choose to have one because they jam etc, and was happy to give my opinion.... prejudice based on zero experience!

I've now had one for 12mths and 7500nm.

Most that criticise them don't own one, or haven't much experience sailing with one.

Because I was scared of mine (very) when I first purchased my boat I asked every single person I came across that had one "do you like it" every single one of them liked their system, most of these people are full time cruisers and some are very long distance cruisers.

I've also asked people about their in boom furlers , none so far have been overly thrilled due to the need to be into the wind to furl well, finicky. I have had NO experience with boom furling.

My opinion through my experience with inmast furling is, most people's fears regarding jamming is irrational emotion, not based on experience. If statistics were available I believe they would show this. Jamming is really only possible on the way out, it's not the end of the world unless you keep cranking on, also you aren't generally letting sail out when weather's getting nasty. Performance costs? I don't thing they're as significant as some would claim.

My only concern with my sparcraft furlers is the load on the furling line when furling downwind, I'm concerned I'll bust the line. I'm planning on replacing the line with spectra.

My initial fears were over exaggerated as many opinions here are.

Now in saying the above I would most likely choose a fully batterned roachy main given the choice BUT it certainly wouldn't be the deciding factor when it come to purchasing, and to be honest it would be more based on the look of a nice batterned main over the triangular rag.. Lol

Best to ask people that have done many nm's with one, they are the qualified opinions.... not the guy that "saw ONE jam once".
Good post.

Very true about jamming - the very slight risk of this is only when furling OUT, not IN, which is why it's not an issue in scary weather. Not an issue at all, really, for an experienced operator and reasonably well maintained system.

As to the performance hit -- it's significant, upwind and in lighter conditions. Good laminate sail, vertical battens, and straight luff helps a LOT, but there are still times when you really want the ROACH. But if you go from an ordinary Dacron mainsail without much roach, to a furling main, it's true - you won't notice much performance hit. And a laminate battened furling main will usually be better than than a full batten Dacron one.
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Old 12-10-2017, 23:55   #51
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Re: Seriously, why do people like in mast furling?

"Seriously, why do people" become so bothered by other people's stuff?
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Old 12-10-2017, 23:57   #52
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Re: Seriously, why do people like in mast furling?

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Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
The ability to reef from the cockpit in bad weather is in my opinion a major contribution to safety at sea, says I :-)



So how do I attach a slab reefing main to the mast if the yacht previously had in mast reefing?

I have just bought a new in mast main, what should I do with that?

Pete
We bought a boat which happened to have an in-mast furler, thinking we'd change it one day but its been fine - we don't race, and the convenience for short/solo sailing is marvelous. And so far we have discovered that everyone we talk to who doesn't like in mast furlers doesn't have one, and those that have them (often by default like us) are perfectly happy with them.

just sayin.....
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Old 13-10-2017, 01:20   #53
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Re: Seriously, why do people like in mast furling?

My guess is that some sailors just don't want to put any effort into learning
about new technology, but have lots of fun trying to poke holes in it!
If you're not familiar with this, why condemn it when so many seasoned big boat sailors have written their approvals? I'm noticing the size of the boat has
a lot to do with it.
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Old 13-10-2017, 02:02   #54
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Re: Seriously, why do people like in mast furling?

Quote:
And so far we have discovered that everyone we talk to who doesn't like in mast furlers doesn't have one,
Well, what would you expect? If I don't like furling mainsails, why in the hell would I buy one?

I see this argument all the time here on CF... IMO I do not have to own an item to have a well supported opinion about them. Observation of the world around me has helped make all sorts of decisions without purchase, and understanding some of the theory adds to the opinion's validity.

On the other hand, I don't go around slanging other folks' boats or equipment unless asked for an opinion!

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Old 13-10-2017, 02:12   #55
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Re: Seriously, why do people like in mast furling?

I believe, most larger top quality cruising production boats (Amel, Oyster, Discovery, HR, Najad, etc.) come with in mast furling. That must say something...

I was skeptical also but after using in-mast furling for a while on my Beneteau 49, I will not even consider a monohull without it. I am not a racer and the fact that I can take a reef single-handed from the cockpit is invaluable to me.

To each his own...
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Old 13-10-2017, 02:31   #56
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Re: Seriously, why do people like in mast furling?

Reefing downwind with in-mast furling is possible. Have done a number of Atlantic crossings and have never had to change the course or even loosing the preventer when reefing. I actually see this as a major advantages for the in-mast furling.

Sail design and sail cloth is two other important factors for easy furling. If you buy cheap dacron it will be more difficult to furl after a while as it stretches.
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Old 13-10-2017, 02:58   #57
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Re: Seriously, why do people like in mast furling?

I wan't actually aware you could reef an in mast furling sail off the wind. That is an advantage. Is that true for all types or only certain brands designed for it? I would have imagined it would some how stretch/damage the sail, or roller, rolling it up under tension.
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Old 13-10-2017, 03:53   #58
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Re: Seriously, why do people like in mast furling?

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I wan't actually aware you could reef an in mast furling sail off the wind. That is an advantage. Is that true for all types or only certain brands designed for it? I would have imagined it would some how stretch/damage the sail, or roller, rolling it up under tension.
It's actually better to have some tension on the sail and to preferably to roll the sail in towards the wind in order to get a nice tight wrap. Too much however is not good, if it's really blowing, a turn slightly into wind is preferred to relieve some pressure.
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Old 13-10-2017, 04:43   #59
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Re: Seriously, why do people like in mast furling?

No doubt it is better to point in the wind when reefing. The result will be better with less wrinkles. But on Atlantic crossing in the trades you have a boomed out genoa and a main with a preventer. Swells 2-3 m. Changing course is not easy. My point is that you can reef the in-mast furling main in those conditions without changing course. As with everything it takes some practice. It is not the first thing you should do if you are new to in-mast furling. Start practicing with normal wind angles.

But as mentioned before it is vital that the sailmaker understands the nature of in-mast furling. Some sailmakers try to build a sail with to much depth as they want to optimize performance. Furling a baggy sail around a straight profile is not easy. If it is flat it is much easier. This is the explanation why a better and more stabile cloth furls better.
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Old 13-10-2017, 04:58   #60
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Re: Seriously, why do people like in mast furling?

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Well, what would you expect? If I don't like furling mainsails, why in the hell would I buy one?

I see this argument all the time here on CF... IMO I do not have to own an item to have a well supported opinion about them. Observation of the world around me has helped make all sorts of decisions without purchase, and understanding some of the theory adds to the opinion's validity.

On the other hand, I don't go around slanging other folks' boats or equipment unless asked for an opinion!

Jim
But Jim, although you are extremely experienced you aren't when it comes to inmast furling, of course you have an opinion but it's not backed by much, if any user experience. I'm sure you have seen a couple jammed furlers, but I bet you statistically the amount that jam is almost unmeasurable compared to the numbers out there.
I've seen one jammed in a marina but I've also seen a mainsail halyard fully jammed at anchor.
Things go wrong with all sorts of stuff all the time.
My point (with respect) is Dh, Kenmac and even my opinion (now) is based on many miles using the things! I've probably had more discussions this year with real world users regarding inmast furlers than most here, purely based on my fear of them and wanting to understand them as best I could, and the overall consensus with the people I I've spoken to is they like them! Some of them were quite hard core sailors, Antarctica that sort of stuff.
Are they better than slab reef setups? I wouldn't say that, BUT are they as bad as some make out "NOPE".
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