Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-01-2008, 21:22   #1
Registered User
 
johneri1's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Newport, OR/Pocatello, ID
Boat: Newport MKII 30 - Solution
Posts: 192
self-tending jib. . .

Happy new year to everyone! Time to show off my newness once again: any thoughts on self-tending jibs? Handy or cumbersome? Boom or not? Can they be rigged for quick change (removal) under sail? Thanks!
__________________

__________________
Eric
N30
johneri1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2008, 22:13   #2
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nevada City. CA
Boat: Sceptre 41
Posts: 3,745
Images: 9
When I had to short tack out of the Oakland Estuary a self tending jib was the cats meow. I rigge mine w/o a boom. I wasn't able to get as tight a sailing angle but then again tacking was really easy.
__________________

__________________
Fair Winds,

Charlie

Between us there was, as I have already said somewhere, the bond of the sea. Besides holding our hearts together through long periods of separation, it had the effect of making us tolerant of each other's yarns -- and even convictions. Heart of Darkness
Joseph Conrad
Charlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2008, 09:45   #3
Registered User
 
CharlieCobra's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: PNW
Boat: Knutson K-35 Yawl "Oh Joy" - Mariner 31 Ketch "Kahagon" - K-40 "Seasmoke" - 30' Sloop "Baccus"
Posts: 1,290
My Staysail is on a boom and is great for heavy weather sailing. You just have to watch it when on the foredeck for any work cause that 11' long stick will smite the unaware.
__________________
CharlieCobra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2008, 10:25   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 217
If you ever sail shorthanded the ability to rig the jib self-tending is a god send.

seer
__________________
Seeratlas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2008, 15:16   #5
Senior Cruiser
 
roverhi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kona, Hawaii, Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1969 Pearson 35 #108 & 1976 Sabre 28
Posts: 6,003
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
Staysail booms, Spoor of the devil, UGH!!!!!!

Staysail booms are for those who don't know better. The worst thing about them is they are a club just waiting to brain you. I have the scar to prove it. Secondly, they make for a poor setting sail except when close hauled. Once you crack off, the boom kites and sail turns into a twisted bag. They need to be vanged to keep sail shape and then, there goes your self tending. At least the vang acts as a preventer to give you some relief from getting brained by the damned thing. Last but not least, the boom is always in the way. It keeps you from getting clear access to the windlass on most boats, especially a pain for a manual windlass. The boom also prevents you from having a pup tent/wind scoop deck awning.

When we were building our W32 made two deliveries of boats with staysail booms. Got a painful lesson in their dangers and the poor set of the staysail on almost all points of sail. We were thankful for the lesson which saved us from the expense, embarassment and pain of a boom.

We had a slightly overlapping staysail cut that sheeted to tracks on the cabin top. Did have two winches for the sheets though much of the time didn't need them. Ended up with a more powerful sail that was easy to keep at it's optimum shape.

As far as short tacking single handing, it's not a problem without the boom. On a tack, set the self steering vane for the new tack, the staysail is sheeted home by hand while the boat is in irons and then the jib trimmed as necessary as the bow falls through. Once the boat is sailing on the new tack, the staysail can be trimmed at leisure. Found that after a little practice, I usually got the staysail sheet right when I set it in irons and didn't have to retrim. In short, I could tack the boat, single handed, quicker and with less drama than I can my current sloop with a 120% genoa.

There are ways to get around some of the problems with a boomed staysail. Ufortunately, they are expensive and may require a flush deck to accomplish. Little consolation as you still have the boom to deal with.

Aloha
Peter O.
__________________
roverhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2008, 16:59   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
Staysail booms are for those who don't know better. The worst thing about them is they are a club just waiting to brain you. I have the scar to prove it. Secondly, they make for a poor setting sail except when close hauled. Once you crack off, the boom kites and sail turns into a twisted bag. They need to be vanged to keep sail shape and then, there goes your self tending. At least the vang acts as a preventer to give you some relief from getting brained by the damned thing. Last but not least, the boom is always in the way. It keeps you from getting clear access to the windlass on most boats, especially a pain for a manual windlass. The boom also prevents you from having a pup tent/wind scoop deck awning.

When we were building our W32 made two deliveries of boats with staysail booms. Got a painful lesson in their dangers and the poor set of the staysail on almost all points of sail. We were thankful for the lesson which saved us from the expense, embarassment and pain of a boom.

We had a slightly overlapping staysail cut that sheeted to tracks on the cabin top. Did have two winches for the sheets though much of the time didn't need them. Ended up with a more powerful sail that was easy to keep at it's optimum shape.

As far as short tacking single handing, it's not a problem without the boom. On a tack, set the self steering vane for the new tack, the staysail is sheeted home by hand while the boat is in irons and then the jib trimmed as necessary as the bow falls through. Once the boat is sailing on the new tack, the staysail can be trimmed at leisure. Found that after a little practice, I usually got the staysail sheet right when I set it in irons and didn't have to retrim. In short, I could tack the boat, single handed, quicker and with less drama than I can my current sloop with a 120% genoa.

There are ways to get around some of the problems with a boomed staysail. Ufortunately, they are expensive and may require a flush deck to accomplish. Little consolation as you still have the boom to deal with.

Aloha
Peter O.
it is generally unwise in life imho, to assume that your experience transcends all that of others. With the trend towards more headsail, less mainsail we have seen resulting from the racing crowd trying to beat the latest rules over the course of say, the last 70 years or so, lots of useful devices have gone by the wayside. I note however, that the latest trend is the opposite, thus the big headed mainsails we see on the more successful racers recently. How is it that your staysail boom was high enough to hit you on the head? One's I've sailed were more likely to take you out at the knee or mid thigh..we are talking about a boomed headsail, yes?..Perhaps you sail where the winds are slight and large overlapping headsails are required to get your boat moving, that would negate the use of the boom. However, I have beat up rough narrow channels doing nothing more than tossing the helm from side to side on a club footed sloop, and working only the jib sheet on a good cutter. Loose footed boomed staysails had more than enough shape to pull well. Course those boats were much larger than 32's, so with a more limited foredeck, perhaps the advantage is eaten up by the disadvantages you cite.

To be certain one must mind the direction of the wind and avoid the unplanned gybe, .but most sailors seem to figure that out eventually.
seer
__________________
Seeratlas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2008, 17:33   #7
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tasmania
Boat: VandeStadt IOR 40' - Insatiable
Posts: 2,317
Images: 91
I think non overlapping headsails with a self-tacking system, based around a transverse mounted track just forward of the mast is a pretty sensible way of dealing with short handed sailing. The only downside is the relatively small headsail that can be supported by this setup.

If I was working with an unlimited budget, and could lay out my boat any way I wanted, I would have a cutter rig with a big overlapping ganoa on a roller furler on the forestay, with a self tacking jib set-up as described above on the inner stay. In light breezes, taking by furling / unfurling is not particularly demanding. In heavier conditions, having the genoa rolled up and a self-tacking jib would, in my opinion, make life easier.
__________________
Weyalan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2008, 03:16   #8
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,573
Images: 240
With a nod to Peter (roverhi), it’s not for nothing that they’re often called “Deck Sweepers”.
Club-footed self tenders have their uses, but they’re not without their drawbacks.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2008, 05:38   #9
CF Adviser
Moderator Emeritus
 
Hud3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Virginia
Boat: Island Packet 380, now sold
Posts: 8,929
Images: 49
Hoyt staysail boom

Peter O.

I get your points about staysail booms, but there's an exception--the Hoyt boom. It's self-supporting (doesn't need a topping lift) and self-vanging (no boom vang/traveler system) because it's a formed aluminum tube supported by a rotating through-deck fitting.

With a roller furler, the sail is truly self-tending, can be completely controlled from the cockpit, and keeps it's shape in all points of sail. Plus, I can attach a line to its clew, run it through a snatch block attached to a stanchion base, and lead it back to the cockpit so I can back the sail and heave to, using the staysail instead of the genoa.

And, I use the Hoyt boom as a support for a Sunbrella tarp that covers the foredeck hatch and head hatch, allowing us to keep them open at anchor in rainy weather.

Island Packet uses them for the staysail, but a number of other boat builders use them on the jib (Alerion Express, for example).
__________________
Hud
Hud3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2008, 06:53   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,311
Without overlap it is very easy to tack, not sure a boom or a track are required?

With overlap you are going to work harder tacking and trimming. Todays trend for racing boats is a big main and little or no overlap. Variations in wind conditions are handled through spar manipulations and changing headsails designs not headsail lp's.

I think you will see more cruising boats coming on the market with larger rigs, bigger mains, and little or no overlap. Downwind sailing in light to moderate conditions will be handled with free flying sails like a Code 0 or assy's. People have learned to sail the favored board to the polar that gives the best VMG.
__________________
Joli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2008, 08:24   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
There is also the Berig Camberspar option. Self-tending, self-vanging and keeps a perfect sail shape on all points of sail. When in use, it is raised higher than most people's head and won't be a danger factor in a jibe.

Mark
__________________

__________________
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Jib Sheets DWT Other 12 04-02-2009 04:34
Jib height for a fractional unbusted67 Seamanship & Boat Handling 6 29-07-2007 09:24
Storm Jib CARL Monohull Sailboats 22 23-01-2007 23:14
Jib area Carlos Molinelli General Sailing Forum 4 22-11-2006 03:30
Choosing a Jib/Genoa markpj23 General Sailing Forum 15 30-12-2005 21:31



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:42.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.