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Old 07-10-2013, 10:24   #1
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secondary halyard for a storm jib

Hi,

I have a 28' Glastron Spirit, and I am looking to install a second halyard/line for a storm jib.

I would like to be able to quickly roll up my roller furling genoa and then run up the storm jib without having to take down the larger sail.

I have seen this setup on other boats, but can anyone give me some advice?

thanks
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:52   #2
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Re: secondary halyard for a storm jib

I'm also very interested in this. I can't imagine how it is arranged though. My big question is what would you secure the tack to? Do you have to add a mounting point between the head sail and the mast or is there another trick to get around that?
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Old 07-10-2013, 16:17   #3
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Re: secondary halyard for a storm jib

If you run your main and jib halyards internal, that will free up a set of sheaves at the mast head for a spare halyard. The other choice would be to put a pad eye near the mast head and hang a block for the halyard.
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Old 07-10-2013, 17:01   #4
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Re: secondary halyard for a storm jib

It sounds like you're asking about a secondary forestay, as your roller furling takes up your existing forstay, yes? What you have likely seen on other boats is a cutter rig, with an inner forestay that is attached to the mast @ 5/6 of the height of the mast and runs parallel to the forestay to an attachment point on the deck, with a detachable fixture so it can be moved aside and secured either on the cabin top or with one of the shrouds when not in use.

If this is only for emergency use then I would forget that idea (given the expense of it) and simply buy a storm trysail that you can hoist with your main halyard. It's really a matter of where you sail and how you sail your boat as to what your best option is.
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Old 07-10-2013, 17:44   #5
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Re: secondary halyard for a storm jib

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Originally Posted by Suijin View Post
It sounds like you're asking about a secondary forestay, as your roller furling takes up your existing forstay, yes? What you have likely seen on other boats is a cutter rig, with an inner forestay that is attached to the mast @ 5/6 of the height of the mast and runs parallel to the forestay to an attachment point on the deck, with a detachable fixture so it can be moved aside and secured either on the cabin top or with one of the shrouds when not in use.

If this is only for emergency use then I would forget that idea (given the expense of it) and simply buy a storm trysail that you can hoist with your main halyard. It's really a matter of where you sail and how you sail your boat as to what your best option is.
I'm not an expert on storms but I think what I have chosen will work for the coastal cruising I do. When I end up in a storm, I forget about destination sailing. For me it is then about keeping the boat safe and as comfortable as possible. That means, among other things, that I want it to be able to point up if necessary.

I have recently gotten an ATN Gale Sail. I've shown it to some real experts on sailing and boat design and they are impressed with it. My goal is to be ale to have the thing up the roller furler in two minutes. With *coastal* storms, you don't have to get caught with your pants (and your Gale Sail) down. They give off warning signs. Three weeks ago we had a doozy that formed inland and moved west. Apparently its effects were great enough that no seabreeze formed to fend it off of the coast. Friends who were out there 4 miles off shore tried to get in for hours and finally called Boat US for a tow in at 11PM.

Which left me thinking -- what if that storm had been moving eastward instead of westward? Would they be able to get away from the lee shore?

That storm gave one visual warning sign -- blow-off clouds that came over the horizon before the storm itself arrived. One person on shore realized what it might be, went and checked the radar, and immediately called all the student boats in. The storm hit with a wall of wind over 40 mph about 10 minutes after we called them in.

I didn't have a radio at the time, but I bet that storm was being announced on the weather channel. During storm season (and it's still going on here; this has been a hot October) my intention right now is to keep this very compact sail lashed to a stanchion. It hooks on at the base with a snap shackle. You have to let the roller furler sheets hang down (don't have to wrap multiple times because the Gale Sail sleeve covers it), and snap on the sleeve, which uses stout sliding bolts. Then tension the halyard (I am using my spinnaker). I have snatch blocks on the toe rail for leads. Since I have other uses for those snatch blocks I have marked where I want them for use with this sail.

Unfortunately I have not actually *sailed* with it yet because of an engine starting problem yet to be solved.

The sail is heavy weight and extremely well made but I don't see it as an offshore solution instead of, say, an inner forestay. With an inner forestay you can have the storm sail up before you ever take the headsail down. But for me, it doesn't seem worth the cost.
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Old 07-10-2013, 18:01   #6
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Re: secondary halyard for a storm jib

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suijin View Post
It sounds like you're asking about a secondary forestay, as your roller furling takes up your existing forstay, yes? What you have likely seen on other boats is a cutter rig, with an inner forestay that is attached to the mast @ 5/6 of the height of the mast and runs parallel to the forestay to an attachment point on the deck, with a detachable fixture so it can be moved aside and secured either on the cabin top or with one of the shrouds when not in use.

If this is only for emergency use then I would forget that idea (given the expense of it) and simply buy a storm trysail that you can hoist with your main halyard. It's really a matter of where you sail and how you sail your boat as to what your best option is.

Hi,

I am fairly new to sailboats. This is my first season. I don't expect to be doing any serious bluewater cruising, but i do get a few miles off shore. Living in the North Atlantic (Newfoundland, Canada), it doesn't take much to get 40+knot winds.

I have acquired a small storm jib, that is setup for a traditional forestay, and would like to setup a cutter rig as descibed above.

There is an attachment point just behind where my roller furler attached, on the same metal block. I am assuming this would be suitable for the forward attachment.

The 32' Ontario my friend has is a cutter rig, with the 5/6 height secondary forestay, and an attachment point about 1/2 or 2/3 the way towards the primary forestay.

I am assuming i would need a pad eye and block on the mast for the new forestay, but then also a sheet/halyard for the sail?
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Old 07-10-2013, 18:15   #7
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Re: secondary halyard for a storm jib

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Originally Posted by CanadianNorth View Post
Hi,

I am fairly new to sailboats. This is my first season. I don't expect to be doing any serious bluewater cruising, but i do get a few miles off shore. Living in the North Atlantic (Newfoundland, Canada), it doesn't take much to get 40+knot winds.

I have acquired a small storm jib, that is setup for a traditional forestay, and would like to setup a cutter rig as descibed above.

There is an attachment point just behind where my roller furler attached, on the same metal block. I am assuming this would be suitable for the forward attachment.

The 32' Ontario my friend has is a cutter rig, with the 5/6 height secondary forestay, and an attachment point about 1/2 or 2/3 the way towards the primary forestay.

I am assuming i would need a pad eye and block on the mast for the new forestay, but then also a sheet/halyard for the sail?


I would be making the same choice you are given your circumstances. I reallly like the Gale Sail *for my needs* but I don't think it's going to be everyone's solution.
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Old 07-10-2013, 18:27   #8
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Re: secondary halyard for a storm jib

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suijin View Post
It sounds like you're asking about a secondary forestay, as your roller furling takes up your existing forstay, yes? What you have likely seen on other boats is a cutter rig, with an inner forestay that is attached to the mast @ 5/6 of the height of the mast and runs parallel to the forestay to an attachment point on the deck, with a detachable fixture so it can be moved aside and secured either on the cabin top or with one of the shrouds when not in use.

If this is only for emergency use then I would forget that idea (given the expense of it) and simply buy a storm trysail that you can hoist with your main halyard. It's really a matter of where you sail and how you sail your boat as to what your best option is.
With my roller furling, I have two sheaves at the mast head, one has a wire jib halyard, the other is unused. Could one run another halyard through the empty sheave for the jib halyard and use the (the wire) halyard as a detachable storm forestay? Is the reason for 5/6 mast height attachment to avoid excessive stress on the mast head?
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Old 07-10-2013, 19:50   #9
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it sounds as though you are describing two different parts needed for hoisting a storm jib: the stay, and the halyard. The are several variations on that theme, the one i chose for my boat is one commonly used on offshore race boats:

use a bare vectran line as the stay, it anchors to a strong point on centerline. the stay is connected to a 2:1 halyard that can be tensioned on a winch.
onto the stay hanks the stormjib, using spectra soft hanks. the stormjib hoists on a halyard located just below the sheave that accepts the 2:1 vectran stay.

the stormjib normally lives below, bricked and bagged, already hanked onto the vectran stay, and the vectran deck attachment poit protrudes from the bottom of the bag - which means the stay can be setup and hoisted without ever taking the stormjib out of the bag.

the mast does require some reinforcing where the 2:1sheave attaches.

let me know if you would like more details.

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Old 07-10-2013, 21:12   #10
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Re: secondary halyard for a storm jib

Just some things to remember.

THAT sail might be too far forward to do any beating.
An inner forestay is better as it brings the effort aft.
An inner forestay must be backed up by running backstays.
As the wind increases, the sail will stretch and start to flog, no matter how tight you make the sheet.

Our storm jib flogged like that with a bar taught sheet, and the stay and luff of the sail were curving to leeward. We were doing 9.5 knots in 70 knots on the beam.
In two hours, the top two brand new hanks had been worn through, the third one was nearly gone. The wind at those speeds will cause the sail to flog and its not good. We have added a leech line in spectra with a little pair of plastic hooks like a cleat so that we can create a curved leech and stop the drumming. You might want to do this too...
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Old 08-10-2013, 11:28   #11
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Re: secondary halyard for a storm jib

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Originally Posted by CanadianNorth View Post
Hi,

I am assuming i would need a pad eye and block on the mast for the new forestay, but then also a sheet/halyard for the sail?
Yes, and since it's for storm use make sure that it is beefy. A simple pad eye with two screws will not be adequate...you should look, or have fabricated, a strap along these lines:



As Gilana mentions, the new forestay will need to be braced with new shrouds (see picture above) which will in turn need adequate attachment points on your deck. One possible option is your aft-lowers existing attachment point, but it depends on your rig. Anyhow, you need those new shrouds so you don't fold your mast right at that point.

You will also want to make sure that the attachment point on the deck has an adequate backing plate beneath the deck and that the deck itself is robust enough right at that point to take the stress. Most likely is, but you just want to be sure.

With the difference in geometry of the new forestay, you may want to install tracks on the cabin top for the sheets or in some way or another ensure that you can close haul the sail if necessary, which might not be possible with your current fairlead hardware for your primary jib. You'll need an additional halyard on the mast, and I would advise that you rig the storm sail with it's own sheets which will expedite deploying it. You can then leave it hanked on the stay, with the sheets rigged, and just stuff it in it's bag to keep it compact.

All the above said, I think you're in territory where you should consult with a professional rigger, if only for them to specify what you need in terms of hardware and what geometry is going to be acceptable on that boat.
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