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alar · 19-06-2012, 08:11

Hi. I had a freedom 21 with the round carbon fiber mast. Sail went up in a track on the mast with clips on the sail , went up easy fell 2/3 right down in my lazy jacks. was great. Now I got a freedom 25 1984 with the wing mast. The sail goes up an applied rail on the carbon fiber mast but the sail goes up the 'old fashioned' way, a rail for the stitched in rope on the sail. I have to winch it almost all the way up and coming down is not any fun. I have sprayed silicon on it. I have to pull and pull to get it down. It is tight in the rope rail. I emailed harken and they say a battrail probably would not work. I really want this thing to go up and down. Can I take this rail off and put some kind of travel rail on???? I know a purist would say my airfoil will change but that's ok by me. Any help would be great thanks

Sailmonkey · 19-06-2012, 08:28

you could either put a car system on a new sail, and a track on the mast. Or take the sail to a sailmaker and have them very slightly decrease the size of the bolt rope. It sounds like your bolt rope is too large, or has too many layers of dacron over it.

SV Demeter · 19-06-2012, 08:43

You may also find round slugs that will fit the bolt rope track on your mast and could go to that set up. Proper sized bolt rope is the best from a performance standpoint but for cruisng short handed its a PITA as the luff does not stay attached when you lower the sail. Better to go to a set up with slides. Check these slugs out:

Slug Nylon Round 3/8"

islandplanet · 19-06-2012, 09:13

I have a lot of experience putting sails on Freedoms. We used to own a 39 Express ketch and we've done sails for customers with Freedoms, most recently another 39 in Panama. But I have not worked with the rotating spar on the 25 and don't have too much experience on the smaller Freedoms.

The best course of action would be Tides Marine Strong Track. There are some potential snags when retrofitting an existing main. Fortunately you don't have a backstay to worry about the leech clearing but tack pin setback sometimes requires minor mods. I'd be happy to speak with you on the phone to describe the process. Freedoms are one of my favorite boats. I would have gone with a 44' if we could have found one but we're quite content with our current boat.

islandplanet · 19-06-2012, 09:28

Alar,

One thing you need to know about Freedom masts is you have to be very cautious about drilling holes in them. People have had masts fail because someone decided to mount something that they shouldn't have. When attaching things to a Freedom mast, it's usually better to make a collar style attachment. That's what we'd do to attach a rigid vang as an example. You can also do stuff stuff like fabricate a radar mount that is bonded to the mast without any fasteners.

Cheechako · 19-06-2012, 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by SV Demeter

You may also find round slugs that will fit the bolt rope track on your mast and could go to that set up. Proper sized bolt rope is the best from a performance standpoint but for cruisng short handed its a PITA as the luff does not stay attached when you lower the sail. Better to go to a set up with slides. Check these slugs out:

Slug Nylon Round 3/8"

YES, this is much better for going up and down, and not too an expensive solution.

islandplanet · 19-06-2012, 11:30

Cheechako,

Slugs will work okay but one issue you run into Freedoms is that even on a smaller one like this 25, you might have 6 full length battens and if they're transmitting a compression load, it adds friction and will chafe the boltrope. So some anti-chafe needs to be added above and below the luff boxes. Also halyards are led back to the cockpit so there's more friction at the turning blocks.

While it's a 25 foot boat, the main is larger than most other 25 footers you'll see. I'd estimate about 255 sq. feet for that sail which is about 24 sq meters. So you're talking close to 100 more square feet than a J-24 main in comparison.

On my Freedom, we always jumped the sails at the mast and never raised them from the cockpit. Most larger Freedoms will use Schaefer Battslides and many have gone to Strong Track or other track systems. So you have to look at this more like you would a sail on a somewhat larger boat like a 32 or 34 footer and consider the effects of more full battens than you would normally see.

SV Demeter · 19-06-2012, 13:32

Properly lubricating the sail slugs helps a lot. I have a 43' ketch with fully battened main on only slugs. My 6 year old daughter can raise the main now that the slugs are properly sewn on, the track is clean, and lubricated with silicone grease, this main is close to 400 sqft. Strong track is great but absolutely overkill for any boat under 35' unless you are seriously geriatric or have no intention of fixing poorly executed rigging.

alar · 19-06-2012, 14:01

Thanks all. Sounds like the slugs on sailrite.com are for me. I can fix this for $25. Then I would need a different sail cover, but my boat came with an older and a newer one, so I might be able to refit them into what I need. I am so encouraged by the help that came in so fast. Thanks again

SV Demeter · 19-06-2012, 14:05

Make sure to carefully measure the diameter of the existing bolt rope and the slot on the mast so you can get the right size slides. I would also consult a reputable sailmaker for advice on the best type of slug to use, how far apart to space them, and how to properly install them otherwise you will just end up with a main with slugs that's a bitch I haul up too...

islandplanet · 19-06-2012, 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by SV Demeter

Properly lubricating the sail slugs helps a lot. I have a 43' ketch with fully battened main on only slugs. My 6 year old daughter can raise the main now that the slugs are properly sewn on, the track is clean, and lubricated with silicone grease, this main is close to 400 sqft. Strong track is great but absolutely overkill for any boat under 35' unless you are seriously geriatric or have no intention of fixing poorly executed rigging.

I agree with you about the need for lubrication and that it's usually all you need for many applications. We seldom recommend Strong Track on smaller boats but when you have a bunch of full length battens, rotating mast, and the fact that almost every Freedom owner I've worked with over the years has commented about sailhandling issues, I would at least do something like Battslides.

Keep in mind that unlike your ketch, some of the Freedom guys are carrying some compression loads on those battens.

And as you say Strong Track is overkill for boats under 35', but the sail on the Freedom is just as large as the main on some 35's.

I think Alar would probably find it easier to jump the sail from the mast. On our 39, I could raise the main and mizzen almost all the way by hand but I was up lubing the track 3 or 4 times a year.

islandplanet · 19-06-2012, 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by alar

Thanks all. Sounds like the slugs on sailrite.com are for me. I can fix this for $25. Then I would need a different sail cover, but my boat came with an older and a newer one, so I might be able to refit them into what I need. I am so encouraged by the help that came in so fast. Thanks again

You'll need to have someone set some grommets in the luff or buy the tools and grommets. You can use regular nylon slugs for most of it but I would go with Alslip slugs at the head, battens, and above the reef(s). I would web the slugs on. If you don't place much value on your time, it's a fine DIY project, but it's really not that much money to have a sailmaker take care of it.

I don't know how many full batts you have but I'd check the spacing with one slug between each batten and see what you come up with. 24-30" is what you're looking for.

I'd estimate $125-150 if you wanted to have it done. If you're doing it yourself, I'd guess about 6-8 hours unless you've webbed on hardware before. You'll want to buy or borrow a hot knife and use a good quality sewing palm. If you go the easy route and use shackles, stay away from the plastic ones and get metal.

alar · 19-06-2012, 16:53

On my freedom 21 the flat slug arrangement was two slugs close together, one just above the batten and one just below. Then no slugs until Next batten. When it fell in the lazy jacks it seemed to do just fine. I'm thinking the freedom 25 may need a few more because of its size. Thankfully I have a spare mainsail so I will lay it out and made a plan. Then I can make the changes right on the boat with the main that's on it.