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Old 25-03-2016, 21:17   #1
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S2 11.0A Aft Cockpit 1980 Running and Standing Rig replacement

Hello sailors,

I have done a lot of research on this great website here but now have to ask detailed questions about a boat. I am about to purchase a S2 11.0A 1980 with a unknown age of standing rig. I know a lot about engines, watermakers, hydraulics, generators, electric, ... but sailboat rigs are pretty new to me.

Most probably everyone would advise here to change out the standing rig.
What should I change of the standing rig? What is the standard here for changing out to be safe going through the atlantic, crossing the bermuda triangle before reaching the caribbean sea?

Can I just take off the standing rig and have it reproduced by a riging company and stick it back in, which hardware needs replacing on deck or on the mast?

For the runing rig, what line dimensions do you recommend for the various sails to have them small, light, not streching but still with a good grip. It is not a race boat, for me UV light durability is more important than a super low weight performance line.
What is the approximate length of the various lines so that I can roughly start calculating?
Where should I purchases new shackles ...?
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Old 25-03-2016, 23:39   #2
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Re: S2 11.0A Aft Cockpit 1980 Running and Standing Rig replacement

I have a '78 11.0a. My second one.. As for standing rig replacement, replace everything from the chainplate going up if the current is original. It's just time..Acquire the services of a competent rigger. Concerning chainplates, they are the achilles heal of this boat. If there are water stains on the material under the deck or going down the chain plate then pay particular attention. These are very prone to leaking and causing rot. As for running, I think you can read the manual online with some searching. I believe the halyards are 1/2". If this boat has the original wire to rope, get rid of it. The current factory sheaves will handle rope. As for sheets, I think it's your preference for the sail and conditions...
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Old 26-03-2016, 05:47   #3
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Re: S2 11.0A Aft Cockpit 1980 Running and Standing Rig replacement

Thank you for the tips.
Should I replace the masthead and what about the roller furling?

Do the chain plates ever break or do they just leak?
I guess re-sealing them can't hurt then? What else do I need to look out for when buying the S2?

What are weak points on the mast?

Honestly I was thinking about changing the standing rig it myself, have all wire rope ends swaged at the mast end and cut and adjust the bottom then on site.
Is it better to use 304 or 316 stainless steel, what is better for durability and what is stronger?
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Old 26-03-2016, 05:57   #4
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Re: S2 11.0A Aft Cockpit 1980 Running and Standing Rig replacement

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, huramentzefix.
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Old 26-03-2016, 10:46   #5
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Re: S2 11.0A Aft Cockpit 1980 Running and Standing Rig replacement

I cannot advise on the mast head as i know nothing about this particular one. Chances are good its Ok. I nothing of particular weak points on the mast. 316 stainless is a batter grade stainless. Again, talk to a rigger. Never heard of a chainplate leaking. Check for small stress cracks. I have heard of some smaller S2s that replaced some plates. You might consider pulling the mast if you buy. Its easy with a competent crane operator. There is a large thick rubber seal between the mast and cabin top. Dont pop the mast out. Put some tension on it and let the seal pop when it wants to so you dont break it. Do not use sealant when reinstalling. It is compressed with the large split plate that the turning blocks are on. While its out, you can address everything including swap to LED lights, rewire, etc. Which S2 are you considering.
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Old 26-03-2016, 12:47   #6
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Re: S2 11.0A Aft Cockpit 1980 Running and Standing Rig replacement

Replacing your own standing rigging is very straight forward and very rewarding to do. When I purchased my first Hunter 37C, that was one of the first things I did. I chose to not use swaged fittings, I used reusable Quick Attach fitting and they worked great. With a little more experience I have somewhat changed my plans for my new boat, I am going to swage the top fittings and use Quick Attach for the lowers.
On my 37C I proved the capability of the Quick Attach, we go caught in 50 knot winds and 25 foot seas with all the sails up and we had no issues, the really hold up.

Fair Winds
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Old 26-03-2016, 15:18   #7
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Re: S2 11.0A Aft Cockpit 1980 Running and Standing Rig replacement

I'm not familiar with your specific boat, but am just finishing rigging my 40 yr old Tartan. You can have a rigging shop reproduce the wires. I just had them Swage all fittings to save myself time. Remove the shroud chainplates, clean and inspect for pitting or cracks. Leaks at chainplates are common and I had to replace a large section of my main bulkhead because it completely rotted away. For running rig, just match what you had or the manufacturers suggestions. I kept my wire to rope Halyards because they last much longer than rope, don't chafe and we're equal in price. Drop the mast and clean lube sheaves, rewire it and inspect spreaders etc for corrosion.
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Old 26-03-2016, 16:29   #8
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Re: S2 11.0A Aft Cockpit 1980 Running and Standing Rig replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelVannordel View Post
Replacing your own standing rigging is very straight forward and very rewarding to do. When I purchased my first Hunter 37C, that was one of the first things I did. I chose to not use swaged fittings, I used reusable Quick Attach fitting and they worked great. With a little more experience I have somewhat changed my plans for my new boat, I am going to swage the top fittings and use Quick Attach for the lowers.
On my 37C I proved the capability of the Quick Attach, we go caught in 50 knot winds and 25 foot seas with all the sails up and we had no issues, the really hold up.

Fair Winds
Alter'Tudes
Were those the Suncor ones Joel?

I thought they looked great for emergency repairs, but never thought of using them before an emergency though.

They seem to have a pretty strong Lloyds standard compliance by the look of them. Could make a lot of sense (perhaps especially for a cruiser not looking for strong winds for fast passages), as can carry plenty of wedges for repairs as needed.

As long as the need for repairs isn't likely to go up in frequency . . . .

Certainly food for thought, thanks for mentioning them.
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Old 26-03-2016, 16:48   #9
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Re: S2 11.0A Aft Cockpit 1980 Running and Standing Rig replacement

Standing rigging; everything wire related. Keep the mast assembly, you may want to rewire the electrical in it and check the sheaves at the top. Some turnbuckles can be re used as well, rebed and inspect the chainplates.
Running rigging: keep in mind that often what is more important is having it big enough to be good on the hands.... so buying smaller high tech line is not a good thing necessarily.
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Old 26-03-2016, 17:47   #10
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Re: S2 11.0A Aft Cockpit 1980 Running and Standing Rig replacement

Yes they were the Suncor Quick Attach. When I did my rig, I used a jig to cut the stainless wire, just a 2 x 4 end cross cut then a hole drilled through the cut, you then push the stainless wire through the hole and cut with a hack saw in the cross cut, very easy and it keeps the wire twisted together.
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Old 26-03-2016, 19:18   #11
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Re: S2 11.0A Aft Cockpit 1980 Running and Standing Rig replacement

I'd recommend you not go with the cheapest stuff on the market. Hayn and Sta-Lok are known to be excellent quality. If you pull the mast all you have to do is remove the standing rigging and duplicate what you have using 316 1X19 wire and the appropriate end terminals.
After you have inspected and lubed your sheaves you can match your halyards to fit your sheaves. The largest diameter they will safely handle will allow for some chafe and be easy to handle. The small stuff is hard on the hands and a small amount of chafe can severely weaken a halyard. Choose sheets which comfortably fit your main sheet blocks, your winches, and your sheet stoppers if so equipped. You really need some on the spot advice from an experienced sailor. Perhaps a rigger would provide valuable assistance if you give him some of the work to be done. Learn by watching and doing.
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Old 26-03-2016, 19:53   #12
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Re: S2 11.0A Aft Cockpit 1980 Running and Standing Rig replacement

A comment on 304 vs 316 stainless. 316 seems to be more common now, but in the 80's your boat most likely had 304. 304 is about 15% stronger but less resistant to corrosion. So if you are going to the tropics, 316 is preferred because 304 will stain but if you are in temperate climate 304 gives a higher factor of safety to push the rig hard. You choose based on use. We switched to 316 because we're sailing south to the tropics.
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Old 27-03-2016, 09:28   #13
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Re: S2 11.0A Aft Cockpit 1980 Running and Standing Rig replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelVannordel View Post
Yes they were the Suncor Quick Attach. When I did my rig, I used a jig to cut the stainless wire, just a 2 x 4 end cross cut then a hole drilled through the cut, you then push the stainless wire through the hole and cut with a hack saw in the cross cut, very easy and it keeps the wire twisted together.
Thanks for the insight Joel. I think I'll drop them a line.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion Jim

I'd recommend you not go with the cheapest stuff on the market. Hayn and Sta-Lok are known to be excellent quality.
I don't disagree Jim, and in this instance I wasn't looking at it from a saving money perspective. If the Suncor are as equally strong as Hayn and Sta-Lok, I was thinking repairs in an emergency might be far more speedily and easily effected. Plus perhaps especially so if they are the fittings present to start with.

Of course noticeably increasing the odds of being placed in an emergency situation would rule them right out for me as a 'standard' fitting, but even if so, a couple of lengths of 1 x 19 with mast fittings (swaged or otherwise) already fitted, long enough to cover the longest runs needed, with the Quick Attach fittings ready to use when the wire has been cut to the right length, could be really good news to have on board when needed.

I'll see what Suncor recommend.
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Old 27-03-2016, 18:29   #14
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Re: S2 11.0A Aft Cockpit 1980 Running and Standing Rig replacement

Wow great forum! So many replies and all very helpful and infomative. Thanks mark maulden, GordMay, JoelVannordel, zstine, Ribbit, Cheechako and Orion Jim. I hope I didn't forget anyone?

Very interesting information to the 304 and 316. I thought Aisi 304 was stronger than 316 but wasn't sure. If it is just about not being shiny then I would actually prefer 304.

Thank you about the recommendations of what brands to buy. I have looked at Hayn and Sta-Lok already. Are those the major brands? What else is Lloyds approved?

With the lines, very good point to have them thicker to have a safety margin for chafing. I wasn't aiming for thin high tech lines, I prefer to have something in my hands. Which line manufacturer is decent?

Also to use a rigger for some of the work is something that needs to be considered.
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