Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-05-2009, 11:55   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New Orleans, LA
Boat: 1993 Lagoon 37 TPI
Posts: 103
Running Reef Lines to Cockpit

My 1979 Pearson 365 does not have the main halyard and reef lined led to the cockpit and I am tired of bouncing around on deck whenever I need to reef the main. I would like to install the necessary deck hardware to lead the main halyard and reefing lines to the cockpit. Unfortunately, there is no convenient place to attach blocks where the mast meets the deck. Also, the shape of the one-piece solid headliner seems to preclude the use of stand-up blocks. My thought is to use cheek blocks attached to the mast approximately three inches above the deck. Is there a better solution?

If I use cheek blocks, is it better to use SS pop rivets or tap the holes and use screws? Any and all help greatly appreciated.
__________________

__________________
Mike Sibley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2009, 12:13   #2
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Belleville, Ontario, Canada; Playa Zaragoza, Isla de Margarita
Boat: 1994 Solaris Sunstream 40 'Estrella del Sur'
Posts: 2,099
Mike, a cheek block on the mast will work with your main halyard, although you will still need to install some turning blocks, line clutches and a winch on the coachouse. In terms of your reefing lines, cheek blocks will not work as the lead from the tack to the blocks will vary with swing of the boom.

For that purpose, you will need to install blocks that can pivot with the boom: on my last boat I installed s/s strapping with a ubolt welded to it near the base of the mast. Again, you will still need the aforementioned turning blocks, clutches and winch on the coachouse ; unfortunately, you will also still get some variance in tension (albeit slight) on the reefing lines as the boom swings.

Depending upon the thickness of your mast section, I would drill, tap and install machine screws, although I am told that properly sized and installed pop rivets will work fine (especially if the mast section is too thin to allow sufficient threading for the machine screws).

Brad
__________________

__________________
Southern Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2009, 14:19   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
nautical62's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Live Iowa - Sail mostly Bahamas
Boat: Beneteau 32.5
Posts: 1,868
Images: 11
Not quite answering your question, but related - When I made that conversion on one boat, I started with single line, but had so much friction I changed it to double line which worked so much better.

One way you can possibly deal with the solid head liner inside if it comes down enough, is to cut out a circle below the clutches or other hardware and install one of those circular screw in deck inspection ports. It has the advantage of allowing access to your hardware for inspection and service.

All the best on the project.
__________________
nautical62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2009, 16:16   #4
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 11,510
I have installed this setup on a few boats, and used it on many racing boats. On my Passport 47 I spent a couple thousand getting it done (extra ST winch, high end stoppers that can be released under load etc) Frankly, unless you are deathly afraid of leaving the cockpit DONT DO IT. It is far easier to reef from the base of the mast. There is too much friction in all the systems to make it easy from the cockpit, you cant see what you need to see with the main flailing, It takes a very well thought out system to work without everything tangling, and having winch power avail for each task etc.
Mark your halyard with a long black stripe for reef one and two, go to the base of the mast, release the halyard to the mark, pull the reef line tight, and retension the halyard and you are done... Spend your money on "Sissy Bars" at the mast..... Just my two cents worth.
__________________
Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2009, 16:17   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Southern Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Norseman 430, Jabberwock
Posts: 424
Is the mast on a P365 keel stepped ?
If not, make sure the foot of the mast is adequately secured to deal with the horizontal load from those lines.
__________________
ggray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2009, 17:24   #6
Registered User
 
redcobra's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Towson, MD Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Pearson 39 Yawl "ZigZag"
Posts: 513
I had my Pearson 39 rigged that way (along with a conversion to mid boom sheeting) by Annapolis Spars and Rigging. All lines lead to the cockpit. Main halyard, 2 genoa halyards, reef 1, reef 2 and the mainsheet all come through Lewmar stop blocks that are on the cabin top with 3 on each side of the companionway. There is a selftailing winch on each side of the companionway also. The system works very well. The mast was redone and all halyards are internal. The reef lines that go to the end of the boom are internal as well and go round embedded blocks. No friction problems so far. The turning blocks etc. are mounted through the headliner with backing blocks. The headliner appears to be tight against the underside of the cabin top and it doesn't appear that there is a spacer. Same with the cabin top winches. I wasn't there when they were installed.
I can send you some pics if you want. I will probably be at the boat this weekend.

The only thing that i don't like is that it is hard to luff the main as the sheet goes to a cabintop self tailing winch and to luff it I have to move to the winch and take the line off. I can luff the main with the traveler (letting the car slide to leeward) from the cockpit but it is only a small let off.

here is the only pic I have now.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	traveler-setup.jpg
Views:	402
Size:	390.5 KB
ID:	8040  
__________________
redcobra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2009, 19:41   #7
Moderator Emeritus
 
Pblais's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hayes, VA
Boat: Gozzard 36
Posts: 8,694
Images: 14
Send a message via Skype™ to Pblais
Our last boat had it all on the mast and the current one has it led back. It's not a cheap date making the conversion. last year I replaced all the block and this year the clutches. The deck organizer is all that remains as original.

The don't do it idea seems harsh but you need to work the numbers.

With our desk stepped mast the collar had points for stand up blocks to lead the halyards to the organizer then to the clutches. There are just clutches and then there are Spinlock clutches. The really good ones are not cheap. Attachment points for blocks - always through bolted. Screws are for little things not heavy loaded. we have 1 inch holes in the head liner with plastic fillers so you can get to back side of the bolts. Oh yes, they need backing plates too. Same goes for the clutches on the cabin top.

Overall I would say this. I don't like jiffy reefing but it works. Slab reefing is the bomb. I had trouble setting a second reef in 30 knots with the jiffy reefing. It worked but it would have been better if it was. When the winds went to 40 knots it showed up. At that point there wasn't much reason to fuss with an almost decent reef.

The friction added is not to be discounted. The halyard on the other boat was about as long and the sail only slightly smaller. At the mast I could hand hoist to the last 6 inches and crank the last bit. Now I crank all the way. A better mast track system would fix it.

I'm more of the mind like the don't fix it folks. I still have a few odd things on the boom like the out haul and the topping lift but all the rest is led back. Leading back number 1 is sheets, and number 2 halyards. Reefing lines are always best done well before you need them in all cases. When it's really bad you'll trash your sail and run out of fuel motoring.

To lead stuff back you need to drill holes, install backing plates, and good clutches - period. It's not cheap so do the math. All your halyards and control line are now too short so they all go too. Low friction means fewer blocks.

Rule of thumb is the diameter of the blocks should be 7 times the line size. I found bumping up from 60 mm to 72 mm blocks helped. You probably want 2000 lb blocks so avoid the Schaefer and Ronstan large 1000 lb blocks. They make big blocks with low ratings as well as higher ones too (more money). Harkin does not have low stress blocks in big sizes so you can't screw up. I found the Lewmar 72's to be cheap yet stronger than the old Schaefer's. The sheaves tend to shear after enough UV damage. real fun when the line wedges between the cheek and what is left of the sheave when it's a reefing line. For me it happend just as the first reef set.
__________________
Paul Blais
s/v Bright Eyes Gozzard 36
37 15.7 N 76 28.9 W
Pblais is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2009, 20:01   #8
Senior Cruiser
 
unbusted67's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Islesboro, ME
Boat: CAL 35 - "Callisto"
Posts: 1,934
Images: 24
I have the same issue and was wondering what is the point of having the halyard lead back to the cockpit if you don't have someone at the mast hauling down the sail when it is time to reef? Do you have a downhaul attached to the head of the sail and lead back to the cockpit as well?
__________________
unbusted67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2009, 20:02   #9
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Seattle/Alameda, CA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 9,895
Images: 122
Here's a sample set up!

Unbusted- That's advantage of have slides rather then a boltrope. The sail will just fall if you release the halyard.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	lineport.JPG
Views:	309
Size:	91.9 KB
ID:	8041   Click image for larger version

Name:	linestb.JPG
Views:	259
Size:	89.8 KB
ID:	8042  

Click image for larger version

Name:	2deck9-07.JPG
Views:	287
Size:	87.9 KB
ID:	8043  
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful!
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!


http://choate-40.blogspot.com/
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2009, 20:19   #10
Registered User
 
Sailndive345's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: St Augustine, FL
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 461 - Layla
Posts: 345
On my previous boat (Beneteau First 30), I started out with a single line set up led aft to the cockpit - I, too, had lots of friction problems and not enough purchase on the clew end reefing line to build sufficient tension. Added a floating block on the clew reefing line (inside the boom) for extra purchase and this helped considerably - however- if I had to do this all over, I would have separate lines led aft to the cockpit.

If I remember correctly, my boat had a Z Spars mast/boom and the single line reefing schematic was on their web page.

Fair winds!

Sailndive
__________________
Sailndive345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2009, 12:01   #11
Registered User
 
dergon's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Cleveland, OH
Boat: 1985 Tartan 34
Posts: 57
Any other folk have comments on Single line vs dual line reefing systems led back?

It looks like we're going to have to be doing some significant work on the deck and I figured I migth as well bite the bullet and get the reef led back too.
__________________
dergon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2009, 13:59   #12
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 11,510
"The sail will just fall if you release the halyard." .....are you sure the sail will just fall with 25-30 knots of wind? Mine never did. My catamaran had Harken torlon ball cars and it took extreme effort to get it down with the wind blowing....
__________________
Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2009, 14:47   #13
Senior Cruiser
 
unbusted67's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Islesboro, ME
Boat: CAL 35 - "Callisto"
Posts: 1,934
Images: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
"The sail will just fall if you release the halyard." .....are you sure the sail will just fall with 25-30 knots of wind? Mine never did. My catamaran had Harken torlon ball cars and it took extreme effort to get it down with the wind blowing....
That's kind of what I was thinking.
__________________
unbusted67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2009, 14:49   #14
Moderator Emeritus
 
Pblais's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hayes, VA
Boat: Gozzard 36
Posts: 8,694
Images: 14
Send a message via Skype™ to Pblais
Quote:
My catamaran had Harken torlon ball cars and it took extreme effort to get it down with the wind blowing....
It's usually true on all boats. When the sail loads are higher the slack in the luff is sucked up in the sail and does not make it drop on it's own weight. It needs something to pull it down.
__________________
Paul Blais
s/v Bright Eyes Gozzard 36
37 15.7 N 76 28.9 W
Pblais is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2009, 16:39   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,259
Not sure if anyone has asked but is the mast deck stepped? If it is deck stepped will the base take the load if the blocks are on the mast versus the deck?
__________________

__________________
Joli is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Center Cockpit vs Aft Cockpit MaDouleur Monohull Sailboats 43 05-08-2009 08:12
Center cockpit vrs aft cockpit Panamajames Monohull Sailboats 54 24-03-2009 15:00
Birth of a Reef TaoJones Recreation, Entertainment & Fun 0 19-08-2008 12:37
Chinchorro reef jess66 Atlantic & the Caribbean 3 30-03-2008 02:33
Lines, ropes, running rigging? Strygaldwir Construction, Maintenance & Refit 37 17-11-2005 13:05


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:40.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Sailing News Delivered to your Email!

Stay up-to-date with the latest cruising news.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]


ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.