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Old 27-05-2009, 19:39   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northeaster View Post
Nick - If I follow your advice, with the two stainless rings and webbing - Will this not leave the reef point 6" - 12" higher than it would be, if I were to take out the bottom slugs (or undo the jackline) so that the reef point is able to come down to the boom / gooseneck?
Well, I don't think it would be as much as 12". We had these before switching to using the cunningham and they were 6" long. Normally, you tell the sailmaker about this and he will adjust the reef grommets, putting them 6" higher.

But it isn't a problem if your reefs are a little bit less deep, is it? I think you would need to create a 3rd reef before worrying about this. Also, you can add additional grommets 6" (or as much as you need) above the existing ones, providing that this is still within re-inforcements.

But I would change to my cunningham setup as I described above... much better and solves your problem too.

cheers,
Nick.
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Old 28-05-2009, 10:19   #32
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I ended up running nice fat lines through the reefing cringle on my first two reef points (at the mast). One end dead ended on the mast and the other to a cleat. Kind of like a cunningham. This allowed a 2 part purchase and I could pull the sail down tight standing at the mast and cleat it off. Up there at the luff they didnt seem to slap around with full main up or be a detriment...
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Old 28-05-2009, 10:55   #33
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Cheechako - I have a similar setup, and I too find that it holds the reef cringle down well, and isn't in the way, when the main is fully up.

But, as mentioned, my 2nd cringle will not come low enough, due to the slugs (through a jackline), stacking up in the track, and the sail folds bunching up - unless I take a few slugs out or undo the jackline, allowing the cringle to pull lower.

Here's a pic of the sail, with 1 reef. Can't see the 2nd reef point.

(don't want to steal the thread, but it is related to running lines to cockpit, benefit or not..)
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Old 28-05-2009, 22:07   #34
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Northeaster,

What do you mean with "my 2nd cringle will not come low enough, due to the slugs (through a jackline)". I don't understand the "jackline" part. But from your photo I see that you removed the slugs from the track. With sails as big as ours and the compression force from their full battens, we can forget that but.... we're installing Antal tracks & cars right now and that includes a gate that is very easy to operate so I will try to take the cars off when we test it.

We never had any trouble with some slugs stacked up in the track, not even with the 3rd reef. And the Antal cars will actually stack up less high than the old system so I really think we'll just keep on doing the old practise.

What you guys are doing is exactly the same as what I do and you can call that a cunningham because it is. The only difference is that I have a grommet just above the tack to do the same without reefing... the pure cunningham function.

ciao!
Nick.
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Old 29-05-2009, 05:35   #35
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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
I don't understand the "jackline" part.
Perhaps he means a Downhaul or Lazyjack control line.

Jacklines are usually lengths of line (nylon webbing) running from bow to stern, that allow you to clip on your safety tether in the cockpit, and move forward and aft without having to unclip.

However the "Lazy Jack” control line is also sometimes referred to as a jackline.
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Old 29-05-2009, 06:00   #36
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Nick and Gord - maybe the term jackline is not correct. I was told that was the proper term by other forum members, in previous threads.

I am referring to the line, seen in the photo, that attaches the bottom several slugs to the sail luff. As you ca nsee, the slugs are not sewn / attached directly to the luff. Instead, a line is threaded through small grommets on the luff, and there is a slug threaded as well, every two grommets on the luff. I think that this is / was common on other boats.

In a previous thread, I referred to this line as a "boltrope", but was told that the proper term was jackline.

Nick - our boats are so different in size, and systems (you with battcars). On my boat, the bottom several slugs pile up in the track, as the luff is lowered to reef. When the slugs pile up too high, and the 2nd reef cringle is attached to a slug as well (through the jackline , boltrope, or whatever it's called), the cringle cannot phyically pull down low enough to reach the gooseneck / boom, as there is not enough slack in the line holding the slug (nearest the cringle) to allow the cringle to be pulled lower.

As mentioned, I have to either take out the bottom slugs (to allow the upper slugs and cringle to come lower in the track) or loosen the line through the slugs, to create enough slack for the cringle to come down further.

I was under the impression that these lines were used as the may have advantages over having all slugs sewn directly to the sail.



I may be able to modify the mast track slug opening, to allow the slugs to slide further down the track, (and not fall out).

Quote from sailrite.com

" Jacklines are used along the hoisted edges of sails to make it possible to pull the sail away from the mast or the stay while it is lowered. They are especially useful in reefing mainsails that are secured to the mast with slides or slugs trapped in the spar. As the hardware comes down the mast and stacks up at the stopping point on the track or slot, the jackline permits the sail to be pulled away from the mast and down to the boom where it belongs. Headsails that are secured to a boom also benefit since the distance from the clew to the stem is longer than the distance from the clew to the stay -- when the sail is lowered, it must pull away from the stay if it is to be lowered all the way.
First let me describe the principle behind a jackline. It is a line running from the tack of the sail up the luff a distance roughly equal to the width of the sail at its base. This line is secured to the sail at both ends. At intervals of from 26 to 30 inches along this length, the line is threaded through pairs of round brass thimbles that are sewn to the edge of the sail. Hardware to attach the sail at the intervals is threaded on the line between each thimble pair. When the sail is hoisted, the line is tight and the hardware is pulled tightly against the edge of the sail between the thimble pairs. When the sail is lowered, this hardware falls away from the edge of the sail on the relaxed line. It really is a very simple concept.
Grommets are installed along the sail to secure the ends of the jackline. Two more grommets are installed at each intermediate point. Brass thimbles are sewn to these intermediate grommets as show in the figure below. "

Here is another link: (I thinbk I have been doing something wrong - there may be a better way for me to set things up. Have to give it a good read!)
Photo Album of Slug placement for reefing, Mastgates and Jacklines
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Old 29-05-2009, 06:22   #37
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Some of my boat's sister ships (late 70s - early 80s) came with boom roller reefing, and perhaps the jacklines were more common with that setup, to get the reefed luff away from the rolling gooseneck a bit.

See the last picture in the link in previous post!
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Old 29-05-2009, 06:41   #38
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Sailrite on Mainsail Jacklines:
Sail Jacklines
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