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Old 11-12-2008, 13:47   #1
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Rigging wire sizes, same or change when rerigging ???

Well it is time to bite the bullet and start the re-rig of the standing rig. Before doing that we wanted to make sure that the existing wire sizes were correct and not oversized/undersized. As we are likely to replace all the turnbuckles, etc then if we need to change anything, now is the time.

A few details:
All wire is 1x19 SS 5/16" (8mm) with the exception of the inner forestay & the stays for the upper spreaders, they are 1/4" (~6mm). There are 4 (fore and aft) lower stays on the mast, they are 5/16" and wondering if they are oversized ?

The specs of the vessel:
Steel multichine Adams 35, 1/8" plate on hull and thinner on decks and cockpit. About 6.5 tons.
Ballast is steel (not lead) so not sure how tippy the vessel is until we sail it.
Masthead Rig is double spreader (not raked), cutter, no running backstays (yet) though attachment points are already installed on mast. Mast is about 11.5mt high.
Mast has a very significat pre-bend (with all rig loosened), Sparcraft (Aust) mast.


The general concensus seems to be that we should replace all the turnbuckles as they are of unknown age. All are Ronstan Sealoc's. We will have to find a cheaper alternative as they are dear as poison. At this stage we will try to get swageless fittings like Sta-Loc's at least on the lower end.

PS: will not be dropping the mast to do the re-rig, one stay at a time.
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Old 11-12-2008, 14:00   #2
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I would be very of changing wire sizes from the original, based on the premise that the rigging was probably spec'ed by the original designer.

For what its worth, 8mm sounds reasonable for a boat your size. Our 40' boat has 8mm for shrouds, forestay etc. (although a friend's similar age / size / syle boat has 10mm cap shrouds). Our rig would, I'll bet, be a fair bit longer than yours and carries bigger sails, and 8mm is fine (or has been since the mast was put in, way back when)

Frankly, if you are considering changes to your standing rigging, consult a rigger. Alternatively, contact Mr. Adams and Co. for his opinion; he would almost certainly be able to confirm the as-designed wire sizes
Adams Yacht Sales
Might be a good place to start looking...
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Old 11-12-2008, 14:26   #3
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unless there is a problem with your turn buckles why would you have to replace them? ours' are chrome plated (sort of now) (30 yrs old) don't you know and are still in excellent shape. yes they have been inspected! if yours' are stainless, then i would i would question them and have them dye checked for hairline cracks etc. as you say these items are quite pricey!$
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Old 11-12-2008, 14:28   #4
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If you have 8mm on a VDS 40, then our rig with 8mm should be no problem. I guess it is then a matter of seeing if any of it is heavier than necessary. It does seem strange to have all 4 lowers in the same size as the forestay, backstay and caps. Is there so much stress on the lowers ?

I just sent an email to Adams yachts regarding the steel v lead ballast stability. As that had been a concern of ours for a while. Would have loved to have lead down there, but the steel is well and truely there to stay. We will see what comes back on that question as it may influence our thoughts on weight aloft int he rigging.

Joe Adams does not run the business any more, as we tried to get some details on our vessel and builder 2 years ago, to no avail. He was off in the Phillipines at the time.
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Old 11-12-2008, 14:37   #5
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Turnbuckles are ronstan sealoc's that have threaded chromed bronze screw caps on top of SS bodies.

We would definitly like to reuse them. We do not want to throw too much money aloft. I had thought that the weak point of the rig was the junction of the wire into the swage on the lower section of the rig. These turnbuckles appear very well made and when I looked at some of the newer alternatives I did not feel confident of the strength or quality of manufacturing. I would still have to get something threaded to go in the top of them (swage or swageless fitting), have to see if there are sta-lok's that have the extra long threaded ends to fit the Ronstans.

PS: the mast is deck stepped.
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Old 11-12-2008, 15:02   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike d. View Post
unless there is a problem with your turn buckles why would you have to replace them? ours' are chrome plated (sort of now) (30 yrs old) don't you know and are still in excellent shape. yes they have been inspected! if yours' are stainless, then i would i would question them and have them dye checked for hairline cracks etc. as you say these items are quite pricey!$
Here's what Navtec says about turnbuckle replacement:
One item that Navtec does recommend replacing after 10 years of use or 40,000 miles (whichever comes first) is the turnbuckle screws. With the stress concentrations due to the threads, cracks could be forming that may not be noticed until they fail.

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Old 12-12-2008, 01:53   #7
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So what about clevis pins, the big bolts up the mast that hold the rig attachemnt plates on, what sort of life spans do they have ? Given that they look OK and do not have cracks visible with dye penetrene testing.
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Old 12-12-2008, 19:05   #8
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FWIW, after replacing chain plates, bolts, rigging screws, terminals, wire, mast fittings etc, I planned to reuse the old clevis pins 'cause they looked OK and no one I knew had ever heard of a clevis pin failure.
Then I revisited the amount of money already spent and decided for another $120, I could have new clevis pins also. So new clevis pins it was and now I have about a dozen spare old ones .
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Old 12-12-2008, 19:27   #9
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Seen that you replaced virtually the whole lot, then why not go the extra yard !

Did you have to replace the mast fittings and chainplates as a age dependant maintaince thing (eg: 20 years old +) or were there obvious faults/issues to deal with ?
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Old 12-12-2008, 20:24   #10
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Chainplates (all of them) had significant crevice corrosion. Terminals, wire and rigging screws were replaced due to age and unknown quality and it was a good time to replace / rebuild mast fittings. Boom was beyond repair so was replaced and new beefed up goose neck fitted. Spreader tips had corroded and so new tips were machined up and welded on.

The background music is "this is the last time I will do a major refit, get it right and the boat will outlive me", hence new clevis pins and so on.
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Old 12-12-2008, 21:40   #11
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We are humming a similar tune " If we ever buy another yacht, then it will not be a project, instead we will find one that some other poor slave has put years of work and $$$ into". We can see clearly now that a vessel in excellent condition and with a clear service record is worth it's weight in gold. No regrets on the lessons learnt, but some regrets on the 2 years of sailing we missed out on .
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