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Old 07-03-2015, 09:35   #1
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Rigging Spin Pole?

I am now the proud owner of a carbon fiber spinnaker pole, bought third hand here in Portsmouth. Now this I hope will really improve sailing downwind.

The pole is 7 meters (about 23 feet) long and about 150mm (about 6") in diameter.

Now I have to figure out how to rig it.

I have a "T" track on the front of my mast, and I have a ring car which fits my track (hooray!) and which came with the pole. I have small sheaves at the top of the track for the pole control line.

How how to make all this work? I've seen boats with a small winch and an endless line for raising and lowering the heel of the pole along the track. Or what is the best way to do it? I guess I could just put on a cleat and use light dyneema lines, one to haul the car up, and the other to hold it down, so that it's fixed in position -- what's the best way to do it?

I have a halyard I can use for a pole topping lift (second dyneema spin halyard, although it's overkill to have it go all the way to the masthead). And then I guess I need guys fore and aft through turning blocks or maybe even through cleats like I rig my preventer. I hope I have enough winches to control this maze of lines. I bet I'll have to tack to port tack to furl the yankee if the pole is set -- to free up a winch. I guess the forward guy can be run to the opposite side, so that the two guys are on either secondary.

Then there's the question of storing this huge telephone pole-like object. I'm afraid I can't store it on the mast, because it will interfere with the staysail sheet mechanism. I guess I will have to hang it from stanchions. This will not work all that well because my boat is boat-shaped -- the sheer is curved, to the stanchions don't make a straight line. I guess I'll have to play around with it.

I'll be grateful for your tips.
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Old 07-03-2015, 11:10   #2
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Re: Rigging Spin Pole?

Smaller boat so may not work. Used an endless line secured 'cleated' with Clam Cleats to control the car. Used two Clam Cleats, one for each direction. The cleats capture the line and spaced far enough apart so I can haul on the line between the cleats then locck then easily slip the line into the jaws to lock the car in place. There is not much force on up-down force on the car so the clam cleats work fine. The pole and car have the Forespar pin fitting.. Really like that for the stability it gives the mast end of the pole.

Have a 3 1/2" 16' aluminum pole that I set up to store on the mast. Decided not to because of the weight. Stow it in Forespar chocks on the deck. Originally wasn't in love with the pole on deck but have come to like it as it gives me something to brace my feet against when working on a canted deck.
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Old 07-03-2015, 13:16   #3
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Re: Rigging Spin Pole?

Dockhead,

Congrats on the pole. It's a little longer than your J which will really help for using it on the genoa.

For the mast track I would suggest the Harken 3:1 system for a boat your size. Harken You could probably get away with the 2:1, but the difference isn't that much, and the extra purchase is nice. The adjuster line doesn't need much slack by the way, just enough to get your hand comfortably inside the area between the two cam cleats. And try to keep the cams reasonably far apart. At least a full arm stroke if possible.


If you really can't find a way to store it up the mast (forespar makes the system) which is my prefered method on a cruising boat, then along the toe rail normally works ok depending on the deck curve. There are a few other options, but these are by far my favorites.

The others get... Tricky. You can store it on the deck itself usually along the combing or toe rail. I have only done this with really long poles that just won't fit anywhere else, and it's a pain. It messes up the foredeck and the entire side of the boat for working, but sometimes it's the only option.

You can store it alongside the boom. But this has two issues. The first is you can only extent it on one track. On race boats it's normally on the starboard side so you can deploy it as you hit the windward mark. It does make it easy to use this way. The second issue is if you happen to jibe while the pole is half deployed you can snap the pole in half. I really, really don't recommend this for a cruiser unless nothing else will work.
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Old 08-03-2015, 09:56   #4
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Re: Rigging Spin Pole?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
Dockhead,

Congrats on the pole. It's a little longer than your J which will really help for using it on the genoa.

For the mast track I would suggest the Harken 3:1 system for a boat your size. Harken You could probably get away with the 2:1, but the difference isn't that much, and the extra purchase is nice. The adjuster line doesn't need much slack by the way, just enough to get your hand comfortably inside the area between the two cam cleats. And try to keep the cams reasonably far apart. At least a full arm stroke if possible.


If you really can't find a way to store it up the mast (forespar makes the system) which is my prefered method on a cruising boat, then along the toe rail normally works ok depending on the deck curve. There are a few other options, but these are by far my favorites.

The others get... Tricky. You can store it on the deck itself usually along the combing or toe rail. I have only done this with really long poles that just won't fit anywhere else, and it's a pain. It messes up the foredeck and the entire side of the boat for working, but sometimes it's the only option.

You can store it alongside the boom. But this has two issues. The first is you can only extent it on one track. On race boats it's normally on the starboard side so you can deploy it as you hit the windward mark. It does make it easy to use this way. The second issue is if you happen to jibe while the pole is half deployed you can snap the pole in half. I really, really don't recommend this for a cruiser unless nothing else will work.
That Harken system is only for boats up to 42 feet. It's intended to allow you to change the pole height under load. But query whether that is at all needed, considering the fact that I am using the pole only as a whisker pole, and not for a symmetrical spinnaker? I don't think I'll be adjusting the height under load.

I can't seem to find a similar mechanism for boats this size.

My car has a spring-loaded button with a pin intended to go into the track. I wonder whether it makes sense to weld a bail onto the button so that I can attach a line to it. Drill a hole in the track at exactly the height of the yankee clew. Use a simple line and sheave to pull the car up the mast with the heel of the pole until it clicks into place -- then the adjuster line doesn't need to take any loads.

My Selden track has a sheave at the top of it, by the way.
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Old 08-03-2015, 10:49   #5
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Re: Rigging Spin Pole?

We are similar size to the OP. Mast is 80 feet & J about the same. I wish I could run into great deal on a carbon pole. Ours is a beast in aluminum about your same dimensions.

We have a long T-track on the front of the mast with a turning cheek block on top. The control line begins on the top of the pole car; passes around the cheek block & down to the turning snubber winch at the bottom and back up to the bottom of the car. The snubber winch is on a track in order to add tension. The snubber has up/lock/down selector lever. It is operated by a regular winch handle. Spar storage is on the mast with the outer pole end down & clipped into a fitting near the deck.

http://www.fisheriessupply.com/sailb...dersen-winches



If you attach the topping lift & foreguy you can crank down the car and the spar tip runs out towards the bow. We have an A-S kite but I often set up the pole conventionally for well off the wind with an after-guy. I won't run the spinnaker above 10 apparent
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Old 08-03-2015, 12:20   #6
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Re: Rigging Spin Pole?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
That Harken system is only for boats up to 42 feet. It's intended to allow you to change the pole height under load. But query whether that is at all needed, considering the fact that I am using the pole only as a whisker pole, and not for a symmetrical spinnaker? I don't think I'll be adjusting the height under load.

I can't seem to find a similar mechanism for boats this size.

My car has a spring-loaded button with a pin intended to go into the track. I wonder whether it makes sense to weld a bail onto the button so that I can attach a line to it. Drill a hole in the track at exactly the height of the yankee clew. Use a simple line and sheave to pull the car up the mast with the heel of the pole until it clicks into place -- then the adjuster line doesn't need to take any loads.

My Selden track has a sheave at the top of it, by the way.
Dock,

The system is the same even as you go up in size, the only thing that may change is the size of the attached hardware. But you can certainly call Harken and ask for a suggestion they provide this service free of charge (or at least have never charged me). We ran a 4:1 built on the exact same specs on a 70' with a 60' spin pole.

But your current car won't work with this system. You would need to replace a pull pin with a ball bearing race. That being said I hate pull pins they are almost impossible to adjust under any load, and always seem to get stuck. Wisker poles I my experience need more range of motion than spinnakers btw. Since you can adjust height of the pole inboard end to adjust the distance it pushes the clew out.

Nicholson's system of storing on the mast is exactly what I would suggest. Give Forspar a call to inquire. It is b far the best option since it doesn't take up deck space. At the same time it requires an adjustment system like Harkens to work, so you don't have to duplicate that.
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Old 08-03-2015, 17:39   #7
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Re: Rigging Spin Pole?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholson58 View Post
We are similar size to the OP. Mast is 80 feet & J about the same. I wish I could run into great deal on a carbon pole. Ours is a beast in aluminum about your same dimensions.

We have a long T-track on the front of the mast with a turning cheek block on top. The control line begins on the top of the pole car; passes around the cheek block & down to the turning snubber winch at the bottom and back up to the bottom of the car. The snubber winch is on a track in order to add tension. The snubber has up/lock/down selector lever. It is operated by a regular winch handle. Spar storage is on the mast with the outer pole end down & clipped into a fitting near the deck.

Spinnaker Pole Mast Rings, Cars and Chocks - Andersen Winches | Fisheries Supply



If you attach the topping lift & foreguy you can crank down the car and the spar tip runs out towards the bow. We have an A-S kite but I often set up the pole conventionally for well off the wind with an after-guy. I won't run the spinnaker above 10 apparent
Thanks; very useful! That's exactly the type of winch I had in mind -- which I have seen on some other boats. Do you adjust the pole under load with that? Or how does it work
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Old 08-03-2015, 17:39   #8
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Re: Rigging Spin Pole?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholson58 View Post
We are similar size to the OP. Mast is 80 feet & J about the same. I wish I could run into great deal on a carbon pole. Ours is a beast in aluminum about your same dimensions.

We have a long T-track on the front of the mast with a turning cheek block on top. The control line begins on the top of the pole car; passes around the cheek block & down to the turning snubber winch at the bottom and back up to the bottom of the car. The snubber winch is on a track in order to add tension. The snubber has up/lock/down selector lever. It is operated by a regular winch handle. Spar storage is on the mast with the outer pole end down & clipped into a fitting near the deck.

Spinnaker Pole Mast Rings, Cars and Chocks - Andersen Winches | Fisheries Supply



If you attach the topping lift & foreguy you can crank down the car and the spar tip runs out towards the bow. We have an A-S kite but I often set up the pole conventionally for well off the wind with an after-guy. I won't run the spinnaker above 10 apparent
Thanks; very useful! That's exactly the type of winch I had in mind -- which I have seen on some other boats. Do you adjust the pole under load with that? Or how does it work?
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Old 11-03-2015, 17:16   #9
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Re: Rigging Spin Pole?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Thanks; very useful! That's exactly the type of winch I had in mind -- which I have seen on some other boats. Do you adjust the pole under load with that? Or how does it work?
Yes, Under load buy not extreme. As I noted, we don't operate it in big wind. There are other cars & track available that slide easier. Bearings etc. You can also unload the pole a bit by running off.
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Old 13-03-2015, 15:08   #10
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Re: Rigging Spin Pole?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholson58 View Post
Yes, Under load buy not extreme. As I noted, we don't operate it in big wind. There are other cars & track available that slide easier. Bearings etc. You can also unload the pole a bit by running off.
Who makes it?

Do you actually need to adjust the heel height when poling out a regular headsail, as opposed to a symmetrical spinnaker?

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Old 13-03-2015, 16:49   #11
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Re: Rigging Spin Pole?

Dockhead,

What you are looking for is called a 'line driver winch'. They are most commonly used for main traveler controls, but can be easily repurposed for a spinnaker track as well. They are also called 'Line Tender' winches. Antal and Anderson are two better known makers of them, but use a recirculating line.

Generally the power ratio is between 6:1 and 8:1.
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