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Old 28-02-2013, 22:57   #1
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Rigging an Inner Forestay for a Staysail

Hello,

I have read quite a few threads that deal with adding an inner stay to an existing rig, and ive sailed/been on boats that were already.cutter rigged, but I have not been able to come up with a positive answer to my problem.

So any input is appreciated...

Here.goes not so much of a problem, but...

My boat is a Formosa 41 ketch. My main mast has already.a mast tang and the.base plates to anchor the staysail back stays.
i fabricated a bracket that will be the deck side anchor point for thw innerstay and a gooseneck for a self tending staysail. The problem is that based on the propper measurments and having the 2 forestays parallel, I will have to mount that bracket on my 8x8 fiberglass wrapped wooden bowsprit. The sprit is 10.ft long, 6.of.those are overhanging the.bow.and 4 ove the deck. Again, with propper measurments, tje mounting bracket will be exactly over the bow point, leaving me no space to weld another bracket to tie the sprit frim that point to the bobstay chainplate passing over the dolphin striker of course.
my experience and common sense tels me that I need to install a bottom support for the sprit underneath the attachment pt of the innerstay.
I have been trying to engineer a design of a custom bracket that allows me to run a stay from under the bowsprit to the bobstay chainplte, but.i have been critiqyed and reassure by several that it is an overkill...
The.question is, does anybody have an idea of how much would an 8 x8 bowsprit handle with a force that is unbalance at a pt 4 ft from one attachment pt and 6 ft from the.other?
ie: installing the innerstay without a secondary bobstay...

Thanks
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Old 28-02-2013, 22:59   #2
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Re: Rigging an inner forestay for a staysail

I will take.pictures and post them later on and maybe a video
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Old 28-02-2013, 23:05   #3
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Re: Rigging an inner forestay for a staysail

Try posting also at Leaky Teaky Yacht Club. A bunch of us CT41s over there, and other, similar, boats. Mine came rigged with the inner stay already.....may have to take photos.......yes, stay is mounted as far forward as possible without being out on the bowsprit. I thought that was too far forward, but it is parallel to the forestay, so it works. Jib hangs up a bit when we tack.......I let it backfill and it pushes itself through.

Here's the link for us Leaky Teakys:

LeakyTeakyYachtClub : LeakyTeakyYachtClub
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Old 28-02-2013, 23:52   #4
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Re: Rigging an inner forestay for a staysail

I will truy to figure out the leaky teaky at yahoo. I registered once but I could never figure out my login. Ill try to reset password or something.
Did yours have a secondary bobstay or just the one on the bowsprit tip. Also do you have running backstays for it or fixed ones.
I will have to have running on mine, due to the position of the second set of spreaders about 2 ft below the mast tang for the innerstay.

Thanks
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:06   #5
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Re: Rigging an inner forestay for a staysail

Do try again at Yahoo. Lots of photos, all our type of boats, and plenty of discussions like this one.

My boat has double wire bobstay, and single wire side-stays on the bowsprit. All rigged from the kranze iron at the tip of the bowsprit. No running backstays, only one set of spreaders (which I made myself after finding the originals were rotten - thank God for woodworking classes).
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Old 01-03-2013, 13:26   #6
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Re: Rigging an inner forestay for a staysail

G'Day Richard,

If I understand correctly, you are describing an eight inch square timber beam, wrapped in fibreglass. The beam is supported at the outer end by the bobstay and at the inner end by some sort of fixing to the deck and/or structural members in the hull. You propose to attach the inner forestay to this beam at a point near but not at the center of the beam.

IF I have this correctly, there is no need for additional support for the sprit (beam) at the attachment point -- what you describe is massively strong, far stronger than the attachment usually provided for the terminus of an inner forestay. The only caveat that I would offer is to not compromise the strength of the sprit by making too many holes when you mount the attachment device ("chain plate").

If you are doubtful, consider the other end of the stay. The mast section at the hounds will be considerably less robust than the sprit and be less well supported by the shrouds.

My final comment is to really think about whether you want a boomed staysail (as hinted at by your reference to a gooseneck). My experience with them is all negative, and factors like danger from the flailing boom and poor sail shape far outweigh the self tacking feature. Tacking a conventional staysail is so easy...

Cheers, and good luck with your installation.

Jim
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Old 01-03-2013, 17:36   #7
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Re: Rigging an inner forestay for a staysail

Our staysail is boomed and very well behaved. There's no danger from a falling boom, but we have banged it up a bit on the samson posts. I like to think that if the wind kicks up we can drop the jib and continue with the staysail. I have played around with that in benign conditions, and found that she would not tack without a jib. Further study may be needed. That's the fun part, right?
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Old 03-03-2013, 13:48   #8
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Re: Rigging an inner forestay for a staysail

You got it right Mr Jim,

Thats exactly what im trying to do. Not sure about boomed or not. As for the bowsprit , its attached at the foraard end with the fore and bob and whisker stays, and at the aft end is anchored to the foredeck with a stainless plate and inturn is backed by2 glassed in 3/4 boards then another stainless backing plate which are thriugh bolted with 7"long 1/2" ss bolts. Which the stainless backing plate is anchored to the original wood bits that used to hold the sprit when the boat was originaly built..
I will try to post the photos if I was succesfull in uploading them.

Its not letting me select any files from my phone.
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Old 03-03-2013, 13:49   #9
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Re: Rigging an inner forestay for a staysail

Can I email photos to a modwrator and maybe post that way?
thanks

Richard
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Old 03-03-2013, 14:01   #10
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Re: Rigging an inner forestay for a staysail

Jim,
You are righr about the sprit support espescially compared to the mast end. I am confident that I can put at least 7000 lbs(roughly 3 metric tons) on the center of the sprit with no damage sa it were supported only at the edges. But my thought for attaching a seconday bobstay is for worse cases, knowing that there will be runinf backstays for the inner forestay.
the staysail bracket will be throuh bolted to the sprit, and in case every design I have fails to materialize, I will use a 2 inch nylon strap
choked around that pt then connected to the seconday bobstay. That strap should serve about 6 to 8 months being in the sun all the time, and still maintains its integrity. Good thing is they are cheap to replace, and no holes in the sprit..
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Old 03-03-2013, 15:27   #11
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Re: Rigging an inner forestay for a staysail

Quote:
Originally Posted by SailPenelope View Post
Our staysail is boomed and very well behaved. There's no danger from a falling boom, but we have banged it up a bit on the samson posts. I like to think that if the wind kicks up we can drop the jib and continue with the staysail. I have played around with that in benign conditions, and found that she would not tack without a jib. Further study may be needed. That's the fun part, right?
G'Day SP,

If you re-read my post, you will note that I referred to a FLAILING boom, not falling! And in my experience, the buggers can indeed flail or whip back and forth across the foredeck. If your shins should be in the wrong place, the results can be painful or worse.

I know that some folks like their boomed foresails, but I personally do not... hence my caveat to the OP. YMMV.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 03-03-2013, 15:33   #12
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Re: Rigging an inner forestay for a staysail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Z View Post
Jim,
You are righr about the sprit support espescially compared to the mast end. I am confident that I can put at least 7000 lbs(roughly 3 metric tons) on the center of the sprit with no damage sa it were supported only at the edges. But my thought for attaching a seconday bobstay is for worse cases, knowing that there will be runinf backstays for the inner forestay.
the staysail bracket will be throuh bolted to the sprit, and in case every design I have fails to materialize, I will use a 2 inch nylon strap
choked around that pt then connected to the seconday bobstay. That strap should serve about 6 to 8 months being in the sun all the time, and still maintains its integrity. Good thing is they are cheap to replace, and no holes in the sprit..
G'Day Richard,

Well, I still think that a second bobstay is completely unnecessary, but it won't hurt anything either. And if you want to use a strop as the connection to the sprit (which I think is a good idea), you might consider use of Dyneema 75 cordage rather than nylon webbing. It is much stronger, more chafe resistant and more UV resistant.

There have been numerous discussions about the use of this material (and its near relatives) here on CF, and I recommend that you have a read on the subject. We are using it in more and more places on our boat and have found it to be a great replacement for many metal fixtures.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 03-03-2013, 16:20   #13
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Re: Rigging an inner forestay for a staysail

Jim,

Thabks for that. Never thought about it, but it is definitely better than nylon, strength and durability. I will have to check on prices and figure it oit.
Ill try to read some about it here.

Any idea about uploading photos?
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