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Old 02-05-2014, 11:44   #16
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Re: Rig tension?

MAST AND RIGGING TUNING

This is a very comprehensive and detailed PDF for undocumented rigging tensions.
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:03   #17
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Re: Rig tension?

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Originally Posted by weavis View Post
MAST AND RIGGING TUNING

This is a very comprehensive and detailed PDF for undocumented rigging tensions.
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Old 02-05-2014, 15:39   #18
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Re: Rig tension?

Quote:
Originally Posted by weavis View Post
MAST AND RIGGING TUNING

This is a very comprehensive and detailed PDF for undocumented rigging tensions.
Weavis
I couldn't open you're reply for some computer thing that's smarter than me but thanks again. I'm new to CF and was hoping for a response just as you and SaltMonkey gave leading to an answer.
Have a good day!

The Pessimist complains about the wind.
The Optimist expects the wind to change.
A Leader adjusts the sails.

Thanks for being the leaders
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Old 02-05-2014, 15:41   #19
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Re: Rig tension?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown Sugar View Post
Weavis
I couldn't open you're reply for some computer thing that's smarter than me but thanks again. I'm new to CF and was hoping for a response just as you and SaltMonkey gave leading to an answer.
Have a good day!

The Pessimist complains about the wind.
The Optimist expects the wind to change.
A Leader adjusts the sails.

Thanks for being the leaders
My reply just said "Your Welcome."
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Old 02-05-2014, 15:52   #20
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Re: Rig tension?

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
I like it so the lee side goes just slack enough to wobble them while beating to weather... for a cruiser.
This is how we did it on the Heritage One Ton I raced. We sequentially tightened the lee shrouds under sail paying attention to the upper vs lowers until the mast top hooked just slightly to windward and the lee side was soft.
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Old 02-05-2014, 16:02   #21
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Re: Rig tension?

Brown Sugar,

The only way to do it is to go out and actually tune the rig. Any sailmaker or local top end racer should be able to help for a couple of bucks or a couple of beers. But it is important to do it right. Just tightening up the leeward shrouds until they aren't flopping around again has nothing to do with tuning the rig, it might be ok, but it often isn't. And it is just as likely to result in an off center rig as one in the right place.

For cruising you don't need to worry so much about getting it perfect or changing the tune every day for wind conditions, but you need to get it in the right place for general sailing. That means the masthead stays centered under load, the middle isn't bowed to either side, and the mast step is center lined. Then you need to get the right forstay length (which is variable depending on both the rig and the jib you have).

It isn't a hard process, you just need a few hours on the boat in 5kn of breeze and a couple of people to help you tack a lot while you adjust the shrouds.
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Old 03-05-2014, 00:27   #22
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Re: Rig Tension?

Buy a copy of Ivan Dedekam's (sp?) book sail and rig tuning. There is lots of good info in it about where to start, and how to do it, by someone with a sound background. While I agree that all boats are different, there are some basic rules. Slack or overtight rigging puts more strain on your rig and or hull than is ideal. A loos gauge, or physically measuring rig stretch will allow you basic settings, and to reset your ideal rig settings once you have found what they are. Nobody can accurately gauge rig tensions by flexing the rigging. Those who think they can are deluded. IMO.
There is a lot of poor advice online about this, some blatantly wrong, including on this forum.

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Old 03-05-2014, 04:47   #23
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Re: Rig Tension?

I do as the aforementioned posters. Sail upwind on a brisk day, make the lee shroud just so it doesnt wobble., count the turns when your snugging, then snug the opposite side the same when you have the pressure off it. This came from my boats owners manual. I read one method of getting a dockside preadjustment. It involved taking a measurement and stretching the cable x millimeters in x distance. According to the article I was reading all standard sized wires had the same distance of stretch to achieve desired preload.
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Old 03-05-2014, 05:24   #24
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pirate Re: Rig Tension?

Dunno how you guys do it but.. normally there's a recommended mast rake by the manufacturers.. get a heavy weight on your main halyard and set that 1st by tensioning your back and forestay accordingly till you achieve the required rake.. then tension your lowers adequately tensioned to hold the mast vertical followed by the top shrouds keeping an eye up the length of the mast.. you don't want them bar taut.. just a bit of give when you lean on it..
Now.. its time to head out with a gentle F2-3 for the fine tuning.. and.. here is where I differ from some.. I never tighten the lee shrouds while under sail.. do the tensioning on the windward side a bit at a time and count how many 1/2 to full turns you've made.. then go on the opposite tack and repeat.. the aim is to have a slight slack on the lee shroud but no flopping.. and no sideways curve from the lowers upwards..
When you got it to your satisfaction wrap a few turns round the thread flush with the bottle screw.. top and bottom.. saves a lot of faffing about at a later date if you have to undo them for some reason..
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Old 03-05-2014, 05:39   #25
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Re: Rig Tension?

Lose rigging, the old wives tale that the lee shrouds should be slack when sailing is just that an old wives tale. Shrouds that are lose, wobbly or any other term given here leads to significantly greater loads on the wire and attachment points and shorter life of all the components. Not only does a properly tuned rig last longer, when done properly the boat sails much better.

I am under the opinion that trying to tune your rig by eye and hand is a poor methodology, get your hand on a Loos Gauge, reasonably priced and a very handy tool for what you are trying to do. The instructions that come with the gauge indicate tensions are set by wire diameter, never heard of using percentage of boast weight as the basis for shroud tension.

Good luck!

How to use Tension Gauges
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Old 03-05-2014, 06:00   #26
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pirate Re: Rig Tension?

Cheers mate.. appreciate it.. but I'm a Luddite who sails 60's n 70's junkers...
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Old 03-05-2014, 06:02   #27
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Re: Rig Tension?

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Cheers mate.. appreciate it.. but I'm a Luddite who sails 60's n 70's junkers...
Hey!! less of the "junkers"!

More its..... "treasured mature vessels."
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Old 03-05-2014, 08:07   #28
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Re: Rig tension?

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Originally Posted by Brown Sugar View Post
Weavis
I couldn't open you're reply for some computer thing that's smarter than me but thanks again. I'm new to CF and was hoping for a response just as you and SaltMonkey gave leading to an answer.
Have a good day!

The Pessimist complains about the wind.
The Optimist expects the wind to change.
A Leader adjusts the sails.

Thanks for being the leaders
That link wouldn't work for me either, had to use the google cahced version: How to tune your mast training
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Old 03-05-2014, 08:13   #29
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Re: Rig tension?

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Originally Posted by Phantoms View Post
That link wouldn't work for me either, had to use the google cahced version: How to tune your mast training
I placed it on one of my servers.

http://boenrep.com/dl/mast tuning.pdf
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Old 03-05-2014, 10:45   #30
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Re: Rig Tension?

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Originally Posted by forsailbyowner View Post
I do as the aforementioned posters. Sail upwind on a brisk day, make the lee shroud just so it doesnt wobble., count the turns when your snugging, then snug the opposite side the same when you have the pressure off it. This came from my boats owners manual. I read one method of getting a dockside preadjustment. It involved taking a measurement and stretching the cable x millimeters in x distance. According to the article I was reading all standard sized wires had the same distance of stretch to achieve desired preload.
If that's what your owners manuel said then its wrong. You don't tighten you leeward shrouds until they stop flopping around, all that does is locks the mast into leaning over to one side. This method persists because it is almost right, it just has it backwards. When going upwind the leeward shrouds do nothing. You can actually disconnect them. So tightening them up has no relation to what is happening to the mast.

You tighten the leeward shrouds because you can't tighten them up when they are loaded... So you site up the mast, notice it is falling off to leeward TACK then tighten the leeward shrouds. Tack back and see if you need to tighten or loosen them more.


As for tuning by feel... Unless you really know the boat and the rig it is a fools errand. One of my friends has won Ensign world or NA something like 15 times. He can tune that boat in his sleep. When it was time to tune my Olson 30, he and I went out and spent four hours getting default settings.
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