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Old 19-05-2010, 18:11   #1
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Replacing Lower Shrouds

The previous owner replaced the back and fore-stays and cap-shrouds not too long ago, but the lower shrouds are now about due.
I'm thinking of removing them and getting same-length replacements made up. Should I do this one at a time, or is it OK to rig up some temporary lines and take them all off for a few days?

lockie
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Old 19-05-2010, 20:09   #2
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my opinion

If being replaced while the rig was standing I'd do one at a time for safety. I replaced all my standing rigging this season but my boat was hauled for the winter, my mast was pulled and it was one of my winter projects. I chose to use mechanical terminals so I could replace anything in the fuure without assistance. Having experience with Hy-mod and Sta-lok I would reccommend them highly. It gives me confidence to run offshore knowing each stay was the product of my own hands. Any future replacement can be done in minutes, not hours or days.
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Old 19-05-2010, 20:18   #3
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If your uppers, fore and backstay are rigged you can take all the lowers off, it can't go anywhere.
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Old 23-05-2010, 13:35   #4
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Just rig some temp lines for safety. I have gone motoring around with a halyard for a backstay. It is as simple as you think.
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Old 29-05-2010, 11:28   #5
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Is it safe to go up the mast and disconnect the forestay up there if a halyard is backing it up? Anyone done this?
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Old 29-05-2010, 13:20   #6
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A bunch of times. Just replaced the backstay and forestay with furler on my 40' mast. Didn't notice any difference whether it was the wire rigging or a halyard supporting the mast. The Lowers can be taken down all at once.

You might think about making up the wires yourself with Norseman or other mechanical terminals. They are a piece of cake and DIY about the same cost as having a rigger do it with swages.
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Old 29-05-2010, 14:49   #7
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Good to know you can do it. Did you use the winch on the halyard to take tension off the stay?


I think I can get complete standing rigging replacement for total cost of under $300 using synthetic lines. This includes 2 forestays, 4 lowers, 2 upper shrouds and a backstay. I will have to make my own deadeyes, and splice the stays around them.

If I use noresman or sta-lok or whatever, those connectors are $25 each even on ebay, which is getting to $50 per stay which already is too expensive total.
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Old 29-05-2010, 14:58   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lockie View Post
The previous owner replaced the back and fore-stays and cap-shrouds not too long ago, but the lower shrouds are now about due.
I'm thinking of removing them and getting same-length replacements made up. Should I do this one at a time, or is it OK to rig up some temporary lines and take them all off for a few days?

lockie
With your backstay, forestay and uppers attached, and the boat stationary, the only risk is if you have either a very bendy mast or a lot of compression. With either situation, detaching the lowers could damage the mast.

To minimize the risk, I would ease off all the standing rigging to minimize compression of the mast, and then I would replace the lowers one at a time, always having three lowers attached.

No reason to take an unnecessary risk..... masts are expensive to replace!
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Old 29-05-2010, 15:14   #9
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lockie no.1 how old are the lowers? i tlked to the guy from Hayne/Johnson and he said if there is no rust discoloration on the lowers all the way down to the terminal and you don't do a lot of off shore you could cut off the the lower swage and put on a Hayne terminal with appropriate toggle. the beauty of the Hayne term is that when it rains the water washes any salt residue out of the term, and also the Hayne can be reused over and over (the whole unit every piece) so you don't need to carry extra mandrels. two adjustable wrenches and your done

Geckosenator tried to pull my brother about 230lbs. up the mast on a Bristol 27 and almost pulled to genoa winch off the base with the base moving so far the hair on my neck stood up.
he ended up using a ladder to get to the top of the mast
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Old 29-05-2010, 15:23   #10
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Synthetic line for standing rigging?

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Originally Posted by geckosenator View Post
I think I can get complete standing rigging replacement for total cost of under $300 using synthetic lines. This includes 2 forestays, 4 lowers, 2 upper shrouds and a backstay. I will have to make my own deadeyes, and splice the stays around them.

If I use noresman or sta-lok or whatever, those connectors are $25 each even on ebay, which is getting to $50 per stay which already is too expensive total.
It sound like you are intending to replace stainless wire standing rigging with synthetic line such as Spectra or Kevlar. I would be very leery about doing this even using top quality line. I would expect you to have to replace them yearly if not more often due to UV exposure and oxidation. Stainless would likely break even on cost in 2-5yr. Certainly line would be inappropriate for a headstay or forestay because of the chaffe from hanked on sails or the roller furler system.

If you have heard of someone that used synthetic line for standing rigging on anything other than a dinghy and made it work for long I would be very interested in the details.
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Old 29-05-2010, 16:38   #11
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I am actually planning on using synthetic rigging with bronze hanks. Eventually maybe converting my sails to use synthetic hanks.

I think it will work fine. The bronze hanks shouldn't cut or chafe the stay any more than stainless, though it's tempting to keep a stainless head stay.

I will have 2 forestays, one detachable and can reattach closer to the mast. That way I have backup headstay, and I can use it for a second jib when running down wind, or closer in as a solent stay..

Dyneema/spectra is supposed to last a long time in the sun before its too weak, and I might even go with 5/16" instead of 1/4" which would give it something like 4x the strength of the wire its replacing, so the extra size buys even more time in the sun.
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Old 29-05-2010, 17:05   #12
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I may have spoken a bit soon.

Very high end racing boats are rigging with synthetics.

These folks have supplies: Precourt Rigging - Designer and manufacturer of innovative sailboat rigging systems - Internationally recognized for our synthetic rigging systems, such as thimbles and deadeyes.

And this guy seems to be interested in adapting for cruising: Moonrise: Synthetic Standing Rigging

One of the suppliers mentioned in this newletter, http://www.colligomarine.com/docs/ne...ers/07-dec.pdf, mentions a 3yr life span and prices being 2x-3x stainless in late 2007.
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Old 29-05-2010, 17:57   #13
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The accepted time limit right now is 5 years for Dyneema Dux. Life expectancy may be longer but that's as long as its since they've been testing it. http://www.colligomarine.com/docs/misc/DynexDuxFAQ.pdf Have heard elsewhere that changes in formulation and the way the rope is made could give it virtually unlimited life span. The big cost in synthetic is the hardware and splices. The rope is relatively inexpensive and comparable to stainless wire. There are some issues with home brew splices elongating so you'd have to allow for that if you are doing it yourself. Making up the hardware for the ends is a bit of a problem for those without a machine shop. You'd have make up fittings that will attach to the chainplates and mast tangs. A hard wood might work but I'd be leery of it cracking. That throws you into metal, probably aluminum, which is typically beyond the average boat owner's tool inventory to make.

FWIW, there is a Westsail 32 that is completely rigged with Dyneema Dux. It's been in service for more than a year. Might be some information on the web on how it's doing.

When I changed the stays on my boat, just pulled the halyard tight and belayed it. On a smaller section mast than mine, using a winch to tension the line wouldn't hurt but doubt that it's necessary to really cinch up the halyard. My mast is 40' tall on a Pearson 35. It is not a high tech, lightweight extrusion. Your smaller mast should stand up just fine, however. The compression loads of hoisting you up the mast are way less than the mast sees in everyday sailing. If you are concerned about the weight, get your girl friend or Admiral to go up the mast.
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