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Old 14-07-2009, 14:19   #1
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Replacement Running Backstays

Ok, A question to all you Rigging Gurus

Statement of my self-made problem - I want to replace my 4 ss-cable running back stays, (Ketch rig) with non-wire rope but don't want to replace it every two years such as all the sales people tell me that I'll have to do with Dyneema or Spectra. Now I know that this problem completely goes away if I just get myself satisfied with the big old heavy 302 SS wires and blocks currently swinging angrily at all of our heads.

Here's the rub. I just came back from a brief sail aboard a custom Abel out of Seattle. We joyfully sailed...(OK, mostly motored) around the San Juans but while aboard, I found this boats running back stays sheathed in a rubber from top to bottom and over the terminus of the block. It was definitely not wire and according to the owner, the rigger said that it's good for 10 years... Now he doesn't remember who the rigger was in Seattle that provided this rig but here's one that uses non-steel, wrapped in a black rubber or (???) to presumably prevent UV damage down to the terminus and is good for 10 years...

Is my info wrong about Dyneema or Spectra? Should I expect these products to last longer than just a short two years? Is there a solution out there, such as the one that I found that works fine for a world cruising boat? I've checked East Coast, West Coast, Europe, Dow-Unda in New Zealand and Australia... the rigger's words are always the same... you gotta replace it every two years.
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Old 14-07-2009, 15:22   #2
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We replaced the SS Runners on our First 42 with 1/4" Spectra 7 Years ago and thus far the material is showing no signs of deterioration although I do plan to replace it before year end. For the sake of the exercise we do carry a set of spares with closed loops spliced into the ends that can be threaded through the loop ends of the T-Ball fittings on the mast in the event that we do loose one (althought, at my age, I don't look forward to a trip up the mast) but thus far there's been no need (knock on wood, eh?). Frankly, for the benefits of the Spectra, the cost of a few hundred dollars isn't very material.

Good luck...

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Old 14-07-2009, 16:23   #3
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I recently replaced s.s. wire backstays and checkstays with rope (on a 40' IOR 1 tonner with 3/4 fractional rig). I used a double braid, with Vectran core and a normal polyester braid cover (like normal double braid cover). The strength is all in the Vectran core, but the cover provides UV resistance and chafe resistance. I don't expect to have to replace them for at least 5 years, maybe more.

I had the ropes cut and spliced (with stainless steel thimbles) by a Chandlery / Rigging shop in Texas and mailed to me (this was still much cheaper than getting the job done locally), and I was extremely happy with their work. If you send me a PM I will PM you back with the details (probably against site policy to go naming names here).
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Old 14-07-2009, 16:30   #4
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Take a look at PBO .
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Old 14-07-2009, 18:21   #5
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Take a look at PBO .
That's probably what the stuff in the black rubber coating is.

My checkstays and running backstays are New England Ropes T-900, which is a spectra/technora blend core inside a polyester sheath, similar to what Weyalan is using. I've had them for 2 seasons so far and don't anticipate replacing them anytime soon.
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Old 14-07-2009, 18:25   #6
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I talked with a rigger at the Oakland boatshow about synthetic rigging. He said they are saying five years but that's only for legal liability reasons. They haven't done any long term testing to really know its long term life. He works for one of the major synthetic rigging suppliers and said they are just starting to do long term testing on their rigging. He feels that the rigging will actually be safe for longer than 10 years, about the same as SS rigging, as the UV deterioration is on the surface of the rope. The rope is so much stronger than it needs to be that the surface degradation doesn't really affect its longevity.
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Old 14-07-2009, 18:55   #7
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Just out of curiosity, my Roberts 38 needs a set of running backstays, never had them. So the question is, do I go with stainless steel cable or do I go with the synthetics? I'd be building them from scratch. Can anyone comment on the difference in cost?

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Old 14-07-2009, 20:16   #8
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We have Samsom Amsteel blue runners (a single/hollow-braid spectra) for 5 years now with no signs of degradation. We oversized to 1/2" to counter UV but I don't thinks that's needed.

We love it, do this it is just so much better than wire. We even jibe the main and mizzen into the runners now (to absorb the shock)

PBO is too expensive and fails in UV before you can rig it. But there's that other stuff now that people use for replacing wire (standing) rigging... that should be great too!

cheers,
Nick.
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Old 15-07-2009, 13:06   #9
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Samson AS78.
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Old 15-07-2009, 14:33   #10
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Bring your checkbook:

POWERLITE PBO RIGGING

NAVTEC Rigging Solutions
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Old 16-07-2009, 05:29   #11
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Useful thread, thanks guys.

Samson AS-78

This seems like a good alternative to 1/19 ss.
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Old 16-07-2009, 06:57   #12
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This is the best source for comparing synthetics I've found so far - Columbia Basin Knot Company, LLC - Specializing in Recreational marine rope
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Old 16-07-2009, 07:32   #13
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We use 5/8 12 plait Dynema (not sure of the maker) for our runner tails but wire above that. It's easy to splice but is very slippery. As the tail it seems to be holding up, we run maybe 3~4 tons when fully loaded. Seems ok for abrasion also. The shrouded stuff is a pbo.

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Useful thread, thanks guys.

Samson AS-78

This seems like a good alternative to 1/19 ss.
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Old 16-07-2009, 09:04   #14
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Top ones for me at the moment are:-
Amsteel(grey) ~ 3/8" ~ 15,500 lbs ~ $1,030/600'
AS-78 ~ 5/16" ~ 13,500 lbs ~ $1,080/600'

I can't find any Dyneema at 3/8" or less that can handle 10,000 lbs (1.4x max displacement of my boat is the minimum needed I'm told).
Although they are much cheaper, so I'd love to find a cheaper option than those if any one knows one. But then I guess you get what you pay for...
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Old 16-07-2009, 09:08   #15
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I should add that my I'm planning some bluewater cruising, otherwise I'd more happily choose something less durable and avoid 30+knot winds...
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