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Old 25-02-2015, 15:29   #16
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Re: Replace rod rigging or switch to wire?

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Originally Posted by Eyr View Post
Did consider dyneema/spectra. But none of the riggers here (Norway) have any experience with it. And want to sell me rod rigging. Anyone know if there is anything to change besides the terminals?
Pins , cotter pins, and since you got the mast down ,, time to inspect the step, wiring, lights, vhf antena , etc.... you should check your wire tangs at the top or the mast maker before to swicht to synthetic rigging, also spreaders tips , if they are easy to acomódate dyna , spectra ends on those terminations,,,, if no you can add to the Budget a lot more ....
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Old 25-02-2015, 15:31   #17
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Re: Replace rod rigging or switch to wire?

Hi,
'Same dilemma here. Cambria 44, 1984. All rod. Looks good but it's 31 years old.

I'm replacing the old hood seafurl 2 with a seafurl 5 on wire instead of the rod forestay. I put on insulators on the back stay last year and they re-headed the rod and said it was fine. The lowers and uppers are rod. I'll replace them with wire before crossing oceans. Maybe. Probably.

I do think wire is a good way to go for reasons of it's robust history and availability.

You must remember that you can't use the rod turnbuckles with wire. They are special for rod end fittings and they too are old and should be replaced for the same reason as the rod. $$ And do it yourself one piece at a time. The mast need not come down.

Cheers,
Dennis
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Old 25-02-2015, 15:36   #18
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Re: Replace rod rigging or switch to wire?

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Hi,
'Same dilemma here. Cambria 44, 1984. All rod. Looks good but it's 31 years old.

I'm replacing the old hood seafurl 2 with a seafurl 5 on wire instead of the rod forestay. I put on insulators on the back stay last year and they re-headed the rod and said it was fine. The lowers and uppers are rod. I'll replace them with wire before crossing oceans. Maybe. Probably.

I do think wire is a good way to go for reasons of it's robust history and availability.

You must remember that you can't use the rod turnbuckles with wire. They are special for rod end fittings and they too are old and should be replaced for the same reason as the rod. $$ And do it yourself one piece at a time. The mast need not come down.

Cheers,
Dennis
The first 45 if i remember well the rigging is discontinuous , and deck steped, try to bang out those frozen spreaders tips with the stick hanging with a rope and you can figúrate the fun...
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Old 25-02-2015, 15:39   #19
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Re: Replace rod rigging or switch to wire?

Remember to change the tie-rod to!!
They are always heavily corroded and must be cut off. A one man job half day on both sides just to get them off, maybe more.
Make sure the rigger order them beforehand. It may take some time to get them.
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Old 25-02-2015, 18:27   #20
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Re: Replace rod rigging or switch to wire?

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Remember to change the tie-rod to!!
They are always heavily corroded and must be cut off. A one man job half day on both sides just to get them off, maybe more.
Make sure the rigger order them beforehand. It may take some time to get them.
What is this tie-rod that you are concerned about?

Jim
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Old 25-02-2015, 19:54   #21
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Re: Replace rod rigging or switch to wire?

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The first 45 if i remember well the rigging is discontinuous , and deck steped, try to bang out those frozen spreaders tips with the stick hanging with a rope and you can figúrate the fun...

Takes a lotta heat! Just check the ball ends. If they're cracked, you need new rod or re-head them. The rod itself will last a long time.


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Old 26-02-2015, 04:39   #22
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Re: Replace rod rigging or switch to wire?

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What is this tie-rod that you are concerned about?

Jim
The First´s have tie-rods who pull down the chainplates downwards. Look behind the cabinet forward of the sofa.

I´m not very concerned. Not my boat, not my job.
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Old 26-02-2015, 08:37   #23
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Re: Replace rod rigging or switch to wire?

go for wire every time.. And No - don't try and do it yourself.. Go for an experienced rigger specialist.. With your cruising plans in mind, you shouldn't take any chances.. and, finally, make sure the re-rigging is competed at least 3 months before you set off and you go out in a few blows during that 3 month time.. then gave have it re-checked before you finally set off.. Hope this helps. good luck!
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Old 26-02-2015, 09:39   #24
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Re: Replace rod rigging or switch to wire?

I'm currently in the process of switching out some 1x19 wire for rod. Uppers have been rod all along, as are head and backstays. Just lowers will be changed to rod. The cost differential was almost nil ... $58 total. This on a (1973) 44 ft sloop. The upper rod is over 20 yrs old; it will also replaced. I'm doing this mostly because I want to avoid problems. I sail mostly offshore, occasionally race and completed a transatlantic in 2014 . The only issue was having the Navtec hydraulic backstay seals fail, with loss of all backstay tension. A stop in the Canaries and a good rigger resolved that problem with some dyform wire and a turnbuckle. Now doing some preventive maintenance.
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Old 26-02-2015, 10:42   #25
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Re: Replace rod rigging or switch to wire?

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I'm currently in the process of switching out some 1x19 wire for rod. Uppers have been rod all along, as are head and backstays. Just lowers will be changed to rod. The cost differential was almost nil ... $58 total. This on a (1973) 44 ft sloop. The upper rod is over 20 yrs old; it will also replaced. I'm doing this mostly because I want to avoid problems. I sail mostly offshore, occasionally race and completed a transatlantic in 2014 . The only issue was having the Navtec hydraulic backstay seals fail, with loss of all backstay tension. A stop in the Canaries and a good rigger resolved that problem with some dyform wire and a turnbuckle. Now doing some preventive maintenance.
Hi Bill,

It seems you are of a contrary opinion to what I posted and to be honest I did not think rod was as robust as many here have said it is. Maybe my experience has been that the rod I've seen hasn't been cared for. I don't mind learning from those who have had good experiences with something.

kind regards,
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Old 26-02-2015, 10:59   #26
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Re: Replace rod rigging or switch to wire?

I don't know about the rest of the world, but Navtec support for their rod rigging has slowed to a crawl on the west coast of the US. Replacement rod rigging is taking 3 to 6 MONTHS to get from Navtec.
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Old 26-02-2015, 11:04   #27
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Re: Replace rod rigging or switch to wire?

Replacing rod is nothing you need from Navtec. Every rigger who have rod in house have this on rolls.
If existing rod is ok, just keep them. But do a proper evaluation. Rod with cracks in the head can be shortened and reused somewhere else.
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Old 26-02-2015, 11:39   #28
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Re: Replace rod rigging or switch to wire?

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Originally Posted by bluewaterbill View Post
I'm currently in the process of switching out some 1x19 wire for rod. Uppers have been rod all along, as are head and backstays. Just lowers will be changed to rod. The cost differential was almost nil ... $58 total. This on a (1973) 44 ft sloop. The upper rod is over 20 yrs old; it will also replaced. I'm doing this mostly because I want to avoid problems. I sail mostly offshore, occasionally race and completed a transatlantic in 2014 . The only issue was having the Navtec hydraulic backstay seals fail, with loss of all backstay tension. A stop in the Canaries and a good rigger resolved that problem with some dyform wire and a turnbuckle. Now doing some preventive maintenance.
I'm very surprised by this. The feedback I got from local riggers is that rod is much more expensive than wire, but the fittings make all the difference in costing it out.

So if I want to switch to wire, I need to buy all new fittings which is actually more expensive than just new rods. But from then on in it'll be cheap to replace the wire every so many years.
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Old 26-02-2015, 12:17   #29
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Re: Replace rod rigging or switch to wire?

I'd find a top-notch rigger, arguably one authorized by Nav-Tec, to get some reality checks.

Rod rigging doesn't wear out by a clock, but rather from the number of load cycles (i.e. tacks) and the strains of heavy weather racing, etc. It definitely is past time for an evaluation BUT re-heading the rod may be perfectly feasible, if the rigger has the tools and experience, i.e. is Nav-Tec authorized or similar.

Rigging with wire cable is going to be cheaper but require all new terminations and fittings--at what cost? And if you should decide to sell the boat in the next 20 years (rigging lifetime) will buyers say "Oh, you've cheaped out on the rigging, what else did you cheap out on?" and be less willing to consider the boat, or to pay for it? You may save five grand and find you've devalued the boat by the same amount.

Dyneema or other synthetic rigging certainly could be interesting, and buyers might think it is a high-tech improvement & a good feature. But IIRC Nav-Tec says it will require more frequent replacement and generally be way more expensive than all new rod rigging.

Might also be worth asking Beneteau if they sell complete standing rigging kits for the boat, they stock all sorts of spares, and they *might* have a competitive price on it, or some recommendations.
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Old 26-02-2015, 12:49   #30
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Re: Replace rod rigging or switch to wire?

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Just my opinion but when rod fails it fails instantly and when 1x19 fails it fails a strand at a time and gives you a bit of warning like rust and fishhooks. I would not repair the rod or use rod at all if it were my boat.

kindest regards,
Rod looks better than wire on paper (engineering analysis).

However in practice wire as mentioned fails much more gracefully. One of the factors missing from risk analyses is detectability. On a cruising boat you can't maintain the sort of checks a professional race rig has. Once it is end of life it belongs in the trash.

We recently procured all staloks, isolators and wire to replace the standing rigging on our Liberty 458. Wire is the cheapest component.

Wire is also easier to handle than rod if you want to do it yourself. One nick in rod and you have a failure in the making.

Most of the riggers I've seen use old tools and their swaging equipment has no known provenance. Therefore I cant trust their swages. I come from a motorsport / aerospace background. Me and my OCD will build and install my rigging.

I procured the quality docs and traceability for our wire. If we have any issues I can just swap the wire out. The documentation is useless but if we have an issue I can then see if the issue is material related or build related.

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