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Old 08-04-2011, 10:15   #1
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Removeable Inner Forestay- High Modulus Line vs Wire

My boat has a large RF genoa. I also have an old working jib that is a hank on, which I would like to use on a removable inner forestay for short term high wind sailing. I am a weekend cruiser at this stage in my life, so unlikely (sadly) to need for extended passages or offshore use (yet)

Has anyone used a high modulus line (vectran/spectra) for a removeable inner forestay for a hank on jib?
There are lines which apparently are comparable to wire in strength, stretch, and creep. I wouldn't trust my rig to them (although in racing world some do) but as a secondary removeable shroud I would prefer the light weight of line and ability to cleat at base of mast when not in use.

Thoughts?
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Old 08-04-2011, 12:07   #2
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Re: removeable inner forestay- high modulus line vs wire

I think that the line will be strong enough and also easy to stow, but with a high modulus inner forestay, you will need to replace the brass hanks in the jib for some kind of webing hanks
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Old 08-04-2011, 13:01   #3
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Re: removeable inner forestay- high modulus line vs wire

Chafe will be an issue. But you can have a sail with Spectra luff and hoist it without a free-flying, if your blocks and halyards are strong enough.

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Old 08-04-2011, 13:22   #4
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Re: removeable inner forestay- high modulus line vs wire

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Originally Posted by malbert73 View Post
Has anyone used a high modulus line (vectran/spectra) for a removeable inner forestay for a hank on jib?
Yes, this is done routinely for race boats and storm jibs - I have the setup on my boat, it works just fine.

Recommendation is to use vectran singlebraid for the stay, spectra singlebraid for the soft hanks (NO metal hanks on the vectran stay).

You will likely need to sort out a strong attachment point on the deck centerline, possibly with tie rods to the hull to handle vertical loads induced by they stay, a strong attachment point on the spar for lifting the stay (I use a 2:1 halyard to hoist the stay), sheeting angles for the sail.

I should probably do a write-up on what I did, as there seems to be enough interest in the idea...

- rob/beetle
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Old 08-04-2011, 13:25   #5
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Re: removeable inner forestay- high modulus line vs wire

You may need running backs to support the mast
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Old 08-04-2011, 14:01   #6
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Re: removeable inner forestay- high modulus line vs wire

We have this setup on our boat. The mount point in the boat is tied into a bulkhead, and we have running check stays in place, as they are already there for the babystay.

We have a low stretch line running to a sheave above the topping lift. There is also line packaged with the sail, so that you can just pull it out, and it is already "Hanked on". You just attach this line to the halyard and the padeye on the deck, and the sail to the padeye as well. The sail is hoisted with the topping lift. Sheets are already on the sail as well. All of this is tied up with sail ties, so that it is a nice compact package to deal with on deck.

I can post a photo of the packaged sail if you want. The previous owned did this all up very nicely, so that you can get the sail up in a minimum of time on deck.


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Old 08-04-2011, 15:45   #7
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Re: removeable inner forestay- high modulus line vs wire

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Originally Posted by malbert73 View Post
Has anyone used a high modulus line (vectran/spectra) for a removeable inner forestay for a hank on jib?
Thoughts?
Yes, Its pretty commonly done today. We use a dyneema (Dynex Dux) stay for coastal sailing, when we regularily bring the stay back to the mast, because it is soft and does not bang on the mast. We have been using a wire stay when we go offshore - just to absolutely avoid chafe and uv damage.

It is best to use 'soft hanks' (made from dyneema) but I have been a bit lazy and have used bronze hanks and they don't seem to eat the dux stay.
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Old 10-04-2011, 08:54   #8
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Great feedback, everyone. Thanks!

I plan to run the stay from the masthead to a fitting on the aft end of my anchor locker bulkhead, more like a solent rig. This will eliminate need for runners in my mind, and should clear the furler drum. Obviously I will reinforce below decks....

I have some left over turnbuckles from when I replaced my rigging. Should I use one to tension the stay, or are the lever type ones better?
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Old 10-04-2011, 09:22   #9
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Re: Removeable Inner Forestay- High Modulus Line vs Wire

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I have some left over turnbuckles from when I replaced my rigging. Should I use one to tension the stay, or are the lever type ones better?
I have used both. The lever type is faster/easier to hook/unhook, but honestly it does not take that long to unscrew a turnbuckle. If I were you, and had some turnbuckles in hand, I would use them and only buy a lever if you find the turnbuckles annoying.

A very neat piece of hardware for this job is the wichard racheting babystay adjustor 5588. Unfortunately they are expensive and we have broken two of them - our specific application loads must be just over their design loads.

The racers are typically using a tackle under the stay to tension it - lighter than turnbuckles and no hardware flopping around when you bring the stay back to the mast. But this requires a bit more installation set-up/deck lay-out thinking/design than the turnbuckle.
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Old 10-04-2011, 09:51   #10
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Re: Removeable Inner Forestay- High Modulus Line vs Wire

This is what works for me... M.
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Old 10-04-2011, 19:35   #11
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Re: Removeable Inner Forestay- High Modulus Line vs Wire

I completed this very project late last year. I used the Wichard 5588, a 3/8 wire, and the existing solent tang on the mast. The Lidgard NZ staysail is hank on, has a reef, and soft clews. The Wauquiez yard had built a tang fitting below deck on a bulkhead. I only needed -22 rod with a turnbuckle below deck to secure the bulkhead to the deck. Additionally I used a 12"x12"x1/2" G10 backing plate epoxied to the underside of the deck and a single Wichard padeye underneath to thru bolt the 4 10mm bolts. The deck is solid glass, and needed 3 1/2 in bolts for the deck, G10, and padeye sandwich.

If you use the Wichard ratcheting adjuster, you will need to use the Wichard double folding padeye (one for the tack). Port Townsend Rigging had the best price on the adjuster.

Feel free to PM me if you have questions.
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:49   #12
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Re: Removeable Inner Forestay- High Modulus Line vs Wire

Even easier than bothering with those heavy meatal adjusters. At the bottom fitting on the deck , (chainplate or whatever) attach a high load block such that it has a fore/aft lead. Depending on your chainplate you may need a double jaw toggle here. Now use dyneema for the stay, preferrably pre strectched like Dynex (vectran would be fine if it is covered bare has very short UV life). You run the stay down from the mast and through the block with an eye spliced in the end. Attach the tack of your staysail/storm jib what ever to this eye, attach soft hanks to the stay and halyard to the head of the sail. With this set up you will be able to use the halyard to tension the stay. No need for adjusters just a little splicing to get the length of the inner stay right. Depending on how high you want the foot of your sail will dictate how long you make the stay. When not in use affix dyneema stay to cleat on mast. No need for adjusters or wire anywhere. Whether you need runners will be predicated on where on the mast you locate the stay.
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:52   #13
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Re: Removeable Inner Forestay- High Modulus Line vs Wire

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This is what works for me... M.

This looks fine but are you sure about the load rating on that shackle at the bottom? I would think a proper toggle would be more appropriate here.
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Old 12-04-2011, 18:43   #14
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Re: Removeable Inner Forestay- High Modulus Line vs Wire

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Originally Posted by SV Escape Plan View Post
Even easier than bothering with those heavy meatal adjusters. At the bottom fitting on the deck , (chainplate or whatever) attach a high load block such that it has a fore/aft lead. Depending on your chainplate you may need a double jaw toggle here. Now use dyneema for the stay, preferrably pre strectched like Dynex (vectran would be fine if it is covered bare has very short UV life). You run the stay down from the mast and through the block with an eye spliced in the end. Attach the tack of your staysail/storm jib what ever to this eye, attach soft hanks to the stay and halyard to the head of the sail. With this set up you will be able to use the halyard to tension the stay. No need for adjusters just a little splicing to get the length of the inner stay right. Depending on how high you want the foot of your sail will dictate how long you make the stay. When not in use affix dyneema stay to cleat on mast. No need for adjusters or wire anywhere. Whether you need runners will be predicated on where on the mast you locate the stay.
I think you are saying that the stay is attached to the masthead, down through a block and back up to the tack of the sail (the sail is now attached with hanks to the first run from the masthead)... now the halyard is attached to the head of the sail and pulled tight. Will this possible make enough tension in the stay for the luff?
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Old 13-04-2011, 15:04   #15
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Re: Removeable Inner Forestay- High Modulus Line vs Wire

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I think you are saying that the stay is attached to the masthead, down through a block and back up to the tack of the sail (the sail is now attached with hanks to the first run from the masthead)... now the halyard is attached to the head of the sail and pulled tight. Will this possible make enough tension in the stay for the luff?

Yes provided you have a decent halyard winch and the sail you are using has a good quality luff rope/wire. Remember the luff of the sail will be under the same tension as the stay. I have done this on several boats with good results. It also allows you room to adjust tack height and therefore sheeting angle.
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