Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 29-11-2010, 21:25   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Annapolis, MD
Boat: Albin Vega 27 "Velocir"
Posts: 31
Reefing Setups: Lets Hear it !

So we are getting close to the critical point in our boats refit where I am debating on what kind of reefing system to use. Albin Vega's came stock with a roller furling boom, but it the furled main has a shape like the bag of leaves sitting in my yard. So, slab reefing it is; 2 deep reefs. So I have narrowed it down to three systems:

1.) Single Line: Running back to the cockpit through a clutch to a cabin top winch. Friction isn't a huge issue since its a small boat. Also, forward cheeck block on the boom or mast?

2.) Ramshead: Clew reefing line running to the cockpit and the reef tack set directly into a ramshead/reefing hooks.

3.) Boom Gear: Leach reefing line cleats off on boom, tack cringle on ramshead.

So, other than the obvious things like about being on deck when reefing, anyone have good/bad experience with these things? Feel strongly about one way or another? Lets hear it, Discuss!
__________________

__________________
Velocir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2010, 21:45   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,016
Images: 4
I go to the mast to reef with separate luff and leech lines. She's a big boat so it's a reasonable place to work. Plus I'm permanently in the tropics. I'm not sure a single line would work well with the differing tensions and friction. Plus the leech/outhaul lines tend to chafe at the kringle despite precautions so get shortened regularly.

On a smaller boat the single line to the cockpit will be sweet if it works.

I don't tend to use the ramsheads. The present main's luff kringles are tough to hook on and can fall off easily while rehoisting the halyard.
__________________

__________________
daddle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2010, 21:53   #3
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by daddle View Post
On a smaller boat the single line to the cockpit will be sweet if it works.
Agreed. An Albin Vega 27 is the perfect size for single-line reefing.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2010, 22:23   #4
Registered User
 
aquarian's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Boat: Vagabond 42
Posts: 269
I rigged a single reefing line back to the cock pit using 2 blocks on the boom a third at the mast base and turned it back to the cockpit. The halyard runs paralell to the cockpit. The set up allows me to raise and/or reef the main without leaving the cockpit. It is similar to the pict below - not exact.

I have one reef point, and the line runs through the reefing eyes. There is some friction/drag involved, but I find it manageable without a winch - 24 foot boat. What can be a bit of a pain is un-reefing. When I uncleat the reef line and proceed to raise the main, it can drag and bind a bit. I like the system and had planned to add a second line to bind down the mid sail reefing points as well, but first want to work out the binding issue.
__________________
P-)
aquarian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2010, 22:36   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: San Francisco
Boat: N/M 45
Posts: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocir View Post
So, slab reefing it is; 2 deep reefs. So I have narrowed it down to three systems:

1.) Single Line: Running back to the cockpit through a clutch to a cabin top winch. Friction isn't a huge issue since its a small boat. Also, forward cheeck block on the boom or mast?

2.) Ramshead: Clew reefing line running to the cockpit and the reef tack set directly into a ramshead/reefing hooks.

3.) Boom Gear: Leach reefing line cleats off on boom, tack cringle on ramshead.
I'm sure this has been covered before.

Single line reefing where a single line tensions both the clew and tack will invariably tension one more than the other - this is usually not desireable from a sail shape perspective, with the advantage of only one line to make fast in some way when the reef is in. I don't like this approach due to sail shape issues.

The requirement that the tack reef ring be set onto a hook at the gooseneck requires three things to work - that you lower the halyard sufficiently to get the ring onto the hook, that you go to the gooseneck to put the ring on the hook, and that you tension the halyard back up before the ring falls off the hook. For a full-crew boat this is not an issue; for a shorthanded boat this is usually problematic.

Version no. 3 is a variant of no. 2 - same problem with the reef hook at the gooseneck.

The variant you do not mention is two-line slab reefing, with an independent line for the reef and clew at each reef point. This produces a lot of lines in the cockpit (or wherever you make them off to) and allows you to place the reef tack line adjacent to the main halyard winch, which makes it easy to lower the halyard to the correct height, take up tension on the tack line, and then pull the halyard back up tight. (You are planning to mark halyard and reef line points on the running rigging, no?)

Something to consider.

- rob/beetle
__________________
beetle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2010, 22:44   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
roverhi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kona, Hawaii, Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1969 Pearson 35 #108 & 1976 Sabre 28
Posts: 6,002
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
I've gone with a double line reefing system. I used two cabin top winches each side. Stbd side for halyard along with the tack reefing lines. Port for clew reefing lines. Could have gotten by with one winch if I'd run the Halyard to the Port side as well and used a rope clutch. Works a treat on my Pearson 35. Can reef in under a minute from the safety of the cockpit.
__________________
roverhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2010, 22:53   #7
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Boat: Cal 40
Posts: 2,401
Images: 7
On option 2 if you're going to the mast anyway, why go to the cockpit to finish the job? If you're at the mast anyway, reduce friction, keep the deck cleaner and finish the job on the boom near the mast.

Worst case is if your topping lift is adusted at or near the mast. Go to deck, tighten lift, loosen halyard, attach luff cringle, tighten halyard, go to cockpit and tighten leech cringle, go to deck, adjust lift, go back to cockpit.

John
__________________
cal40john is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2010, 23:36   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 679
I've tried most permutations over time and have come back to the simplest. That means, no single line reefing - I guarantee it will foul at the worst moment and the extra friction, while minor at the dock, will be amplified at sea. It also means, no lines back to the cockpit - the extra gear, friction and miles of line are all sources of problems.

Go to the mast, ease the halyard and pull down the luff, drop the hook in the reef eye and retighten. No lines, no fuss. Then haul on the leech reef line and cleat it at the mast. Then back to the cockpit. It's the quickest, cleanest way. And it's safe at the mast - you've plenty to hold onto and you get a better view of the process than from the cockpit.
__________________
Wand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-2010, 04:48   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,413
I am back to two line reefing after one line internal boom reefing. I found that among other things when trying to tighten BOTH the tack and the clew, if one tightened first - as usually happened - it made it impossible for the reefing line to run so that the other would tighten. I think this is because the length of line running between the boom sheaves etc was different for the tack and the clew with the clew being longer. the tack would come down onto the boom while the clew end did not.

Two separate lines avoids this problem.

The reefing is done from the cockpit so this is not an issue.

I have three reef points and rig 1 and 2 for coastal and would switch to 2 and 3 for offshore.
__________________
Sandero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-2010, 06:06   #10
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,305
I have single line reefing on my Cal-39 (2 lines really with a block inside the boom). I find it easy to reef in and out and like being able to do it from the cockpit, both from not having to go forward but also because with my wife we can easily communicate during it.

Far as getting the tack and crew tightened perfectly; if the wind is blowing that hard that I reefed I'm not too concerned about losing some efficiency.
__________________
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-2010, 06:49   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
nautical62's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Live Iowa - Sail mostly Bahamas
Boat: Beneteau 32.5
Posts: 2,264
Images: 12
I installed single line reefing on a 26-foot boat I had. I found there was too much friction and it was difficult to really get the clew down well. I ended up converting it to a two-line slab reefing system which worked much better for me.

(The boat originally had boom roller furling which really didn't work well at all.)
__________________
nautical62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-2010, 07:27   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: San Francisco
Boat: N/M 45
Posts: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
Far as getting the tack and crew tightened perfectly; if the wind is blowing that hard that I reefed I'm not too concerned about losing some efficiency.
I'd argue that the mainsail slab reef is about creating a flat mainsail shape, which is all about reducing power in the sail - I'm not sure I'd call that going for efficiency as much as reducing effeciency of the sail in order to shed power. A full, round mainsail shape is created if the clew is not sufficiently tensioned, and the full round shape generates a lot of power as compared to a flat shape.

Going upwind in heavier air you depower the main by pulling on the outhaul to flatten out the foot of the sail, among other things. The same is true as you reef, and the reef clew line has become the outhaul control. You want to pull the clew aft and down hard to flatten out the foot of the reefed mainsail - reducing power, reducing heel angle, and while still giving you point (if you want it).

What I see with most reefed mains is that while the sail area has been reduced, the sail is no longer flat, resulting in a small main with a lot of chord depth which in turn produces a lot of power and therefore heel angle - boats continue to sail on their ear and make more leeway than they need to.

And that's ultimately the problem with single line reefing - you tension the tack more than the clew, producing a baggy main. It's also the problem if the clew reef line is set at the incorrect position on the boom - the clew is not pulled aft far enough, producing a baggy main.
__________________
beetle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-2010, 08:15   #13
Registered User
 
cfarrar's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Brooklin, Maine U.S.A
Boat: Allures 44
Posts: 734
Images: 2
John and Phyliss of Morgans Cloud show their reefing technique (at the mast, with reefing pendants on boom-mounted winches) in this cool slide show called How to Reef While Sailing Downwind.

My current setup is a modification of your version #2: two deep reefs, halyard and leech lines to the cockpit, and ramshorns for the tacks; however, I also run reefing lines from the cockpit, through the tack points, to the ramshorns. This way I can reef without leaving the cockpit, if desired. I can go forward and slip the tack ring over the ramshorn if and when I feel like it.
__________________
cfarrar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-2010, 08:25   #14
Moderator Emeritus
 
FrankZ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Bristol 35 Bellesa
Posts: 13,565
Images: 1
On our previous boat a Coronado 25 I did a single line reef. It was nice not having to make that big step up onto the cabin top while the boat was moving excitedly. Friction was an issue until I put a Harken airblock block onto the reefing clew.

On our Bristol 35 I went with 2 line slab reefing, even though she has a roller boom.

Both seem to work well.
__________________
Sing to a sailor's courage, Sing while the elbows bend,
A ruby port your harbor, Raise three sheets to the wind.
......................-=Krynnish drinking song=-
FrankZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-2010, 15:02   #15
Registered User
 
aquarian's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Boat: Vagabond 42
Posts: 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankZ View Post
On our previous boat a Coronado 25 I did a single line reef. It was nice not having to make that big step up onto the cabin top while the boat was moving excitedly. Friction was an issue until I put a Harken airblock block onto the reefing clew.

On our Bristol 35 I went with 2 line slab reefing, even though she has a roller boom.

Both seem to work well.

Thanks. I have been looking to do the same to mine for the same reason. It's nice to know behoand that it will work.
__________________

__________________
P-)
aquarian is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Let's Hear Everyones Favorite Place to Drop the Hook in the Caribbean typhoon Atlantic & the Caribbean 37 10-01-2012 13:17
Beneteau 50 In Mast Reefing vs Slab Reefing simon10 Monohull Sailboats 20 11-09-2008 07:22
Hello Hello Can you hear me now??? olepedersen Meets & Greets 6 17-10-2006 06:04



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:52.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.