"Reefing Point" for Roller Furled Headsail?

[zeehag]

i merely use my reefed jib on the roller and use however much i feel like using. j would think making something with lines over the furled sail will not be good for the sail cloth. you could well be sorry for causing friction on your good jib or genoa. just comn sens3e--i have seen what winds can do and if you ar sailing the kinds of breezes rquiring a storm jib, you will want no friiction on whatever sail you are not using.
another good reason to place a well-backed D ring in decking.

[rhumbunctious]

Originally Posted by zeehag

i merely use my reefed jib on the roller and use however much i feel like using. j would think making something with lines over the furled sail will not be good for the sail cloth. you could well be sorry for causing friction on your good jib or genoa. just comn sens3e--i have seen what winds can do and if you ar sailing the kinds of breezes rquiring a storm jib, you will want no friiction on whatever sail you are not using.
another good reason to place a well-backed D ring in decking.

The lines would not be over the furled sail, but in front of, so no friction (less even, because the secondary luff created will alleviate the need for the furler and furled sail to control how much sail is exposed to the wind.

[rhumbunctious]

Originally Posted by zeehag

if you place a backed D ring in foredeck, you will have a baby stay placement. ...

Yes, but then I'd have to also cut a hole in the hull of my hard dinghy to attach the removable stay... ;-)

My rig already has a baby stay, but it is not designed to take any sails and adding a second forestay to my boat is just impractical and undesirable in too many ways for it to be a viable option.

[zeehag]

your plan is interesting sounding--if it works---PATENT IT!!!!

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by rhumbunctious

;-)

Better to destroy an old sail in a controlled manner than a new sail in an uncontrolled manner "out there"...

The roller furler would still be rolled tight via its furling line, but nearly all of the force of the wind will be pulling on the secondary "halyard" at the reef point, and thus little to no stress on the furler or furling line itself.

When you hear of partially furled headsails suddenly unfurling in a blow, it's usually because the furling line parted due to the stresses of using the furler/furling line to control the size of the headsail exposed to the wind.

If the new luff of the reefed headsail is taking all the forces, the furler and furling line have an easy time of it.

Then this won't work for me. :*(

My roller furler does not remain rolled tight. There are no teeth, and no brake, in the drum. It is not possible to partially deploy my particular roller furler.

I'm quite sure the roller furler would be better off with the small forces on the small "storm jib" part of the sail than having the sail fully deployed in strong winds, but I see no way to keep it from doing so. This system would support the part of the sail that is out well, but won't keep the rest of it from deploying in a very strange way behind it.

I think an ATN Gale Sail woould be the best idea for me. It would not only put the smaller sail out but secure the main headsail from deploying.

When storms are coming I have a line with a latch on it. I put it through the tack. If the sheets are wound counterclockwise around the sail, I wwap this line clockwise and tie it off. The sail on my roller furler can deploy (always fully) even when both sheets and the continuous furler line are cleated off.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by hummingway

What if you simply tied off the sail at the grommets? In an emergency you could still furl but it wouldn't unfurl past the grommets until the sail was untied.

The sail would deploy behind the grommets. I would have the sail size I wanted in front, and a narrow balloon of a sail behind it, probably getting pretty badly beaten up.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by rhumbunctious

Yes, but (a) an inner forestay is not a reasonable option for me, and (b) this is not intended to replace a "proper" storm jib, but to provide an additional option which in may cases may be more than sufficient, easier, faster, and safer.

OK.

But you can ask your sailmaker to build a rather flat jib for you - one with very nice foam full. When you furl it, you will obtain a very neat, very small and relatively flat 'storm jib'.

Off course, a sail built like this will be less efficient in light winds when it is fully unfurled. Given the fact that 9/10 furling genoas are build to big and to heavy, I could not care less!

b.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I like this idea. I see some limitations and challenges but then again that's what makes life worth living.

Personally, I would just add an inner forestay and invest in a small jib with hanks as the simplest, most efficient, most -proof solution.

Still I do dig the idea. Will be back to read up others' opinions.

b.

Then you have more money than I do.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by zeehag

if you place a backed D ring in foredeck, you will have a baby stay placement. use that instead of the roller furling for a storm jib, if you are that concerned about it all. my ericson has one of those.
btw--there isnt such an entity as a cutter stay--is a forestaysail, not a cutter sail. having the forestaysail makes the sloop a cutter. with a ketch is a forestaysail ketch.

you all wanna be grammar police with me-earn the words and meanings.

That could secure a stay at the bottom, but what about at the top? I don't think I'm quite following this.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

Then you have more money than I do.

If you cannot afford a storm jib, avoid storms!

;-)
b.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

If you cannot afford a storm jib, avoid storms!

;-)
b.

Easier said than done. As you know, that's not a prudent plan. However, that knowledge does not put more money in my wallet. The sail on my blasted furler is actually designed to be reefed. It has a foam luff. It's less likely to distort than other sails. I don't worry about strain on the roller furler. it seems to me that a loaded, fully deployed sail in a storm would put more forces on the roller furler than a smaller surface area.

I also do not relish the idea of having to change sails on the roller furler as a storm approaches. The outflow alone can whip things up pretty well. We sometimes have "walls" of wind (what I call them) that seemingly come out of nowhere. There was no warning that the winds would be so high on Wednesday. The forecast was for 10 - 15.

Whatever solution I end up with, I need to practice it *before* getting caught in a storm.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

(...) I also do not relish the idea of having to change sails on the roller furler as a storm approaches.(...)

This is actually pretty un-do-able - the sails are usually already somewhat furled in at this point and unfurling them, lowering, stowing and replacing in bad conditions is a no / no.

If rigging an inner stay is not possible, can you rig an inner jib with a 'structural' luff? Then you do not need the extra forestay!

Or else, as per OP - experiment with new ideas.

b.

[hummingway]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

Then this won't work for me. :*(


I think an ATN Gale Sail woould be the best idea for me. It would not only put the smaller sail out but secure the main headsail from deploying.

I like the look of the Gale Sail. Not all that cheap though. You could convert your furler for less.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

This is actually pretty un-do-able - the sails are usually already somewhat furled in at this point and unfurling them, lowering, stowing and replacing in bad conditions is a no / no.

If rigging an inner stay is not possible, can you rig an inner jib with a 'structural' luff? Then you do not need the extra forestay!

Or else, as per OP - experiment with new ideas.

b.

Structural luff? I'm open to any ideas but I don't know what that is.

I'm wondering if it's what I was thinking of, to stiffen the luff some way and then hang it from the spinnaker halyard. I was even thinking I might be able to lash the luff to the furled sail. I really don't see that a small sail like that would put excessive strain on the furler. It would be nothing compared to the filled sail in a storm.

[hummingway]

They have wire or spectra in the luff. I presume you'd have to put a D ring on the deck?