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Old 01-08-2011, 09:35   #1
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'Reefing Madness' - Angst Revisited

My Pearson 34-2 has an Isomat mast and boom. The boom has internal reefing. I have never had a problem setting a reef, but always a problem shaking one out. Two years ago, I dismanteled my entire boom, checked and replaced all sheaves and blocks, and ascertained that no lines were crossed before reassembling the boom. Having used my double reef the last two times I sailed, I attempted to shake out the reef yesterday and the same problem: it will not shake out without pulling the reef lines at the mast. The lines are 3/8" diameter and fit properly in the sheaves. I have considered trying a smaller diameter line but am not convinced it will solve the problem. Any ideas from those with similar in-boom reefing? I have never liked the system and am considering installing jiffy reefing which was simple and bullet proof on my old boat. Try shaking out a reef on a moonless night with a lumpy left over sea and nothing wants to move. Best, Ron
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Old 01-08-2011, 09:49   #2
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Re: "Reefing Madness"--Angst revisited

Welcome to the furling vs traditonal reefing debate! ( i hope it doesnt go there again!)
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Old 01-08-2011, 10:54   #3
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Re: 'Reefing Madness' - Angst Revisited

Are you talking about boom furling or single line reefing? Your reference leads me to think in boom furling but your description sounds like "single line reefing". A picture or reference URL would help.
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Old 01-08-2011, 12:48   #4
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Re: 'Reefing Madness' - Angst Revisited

I've got internal reefing at the boom end for the clew reef lines and have no problems, whatsoever, with it. It's double line reefing lead back to the cabin top through stand up blocks at the base of the mast, deck organizers and clutches. Assume your internal reefing is just a boom end with sheaves for the reefing lines. The lines exit the aft end of the boom, go through the leech cringle and are dead ended on the boom by pad eyes or a bowline around the boom. The lines run internal forward through the boom end sheaves to the gooseneck. The gooseneck fitting has sheaves that dump out the clue lines at its base. You may/may not have line clutches in the gooseneck as well as the sheaves. It that's the case, there is precious little to cause the clew lines to hang up.

Are you saying the lines are free before they enter the boom?? If that is the case, do you have line clutches in the boom at the goose neck that might be hanging up the line??

Is it a single line reefing system with a block set up in the boom?? That could be a problem. I'd consider going to a double line reefing system and just have the clew lines run through the boom.
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Old 01-08-2011, 13:03   #5
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'Reefing Madness' - Angst Revisited

DeepFrz and Peter, My reefing is a double line system with no line clutches at the terminal ends. Everything is free running with no entanglements, the sheaves run freely, but when shaking out a reef I must pull out the reefing lines by hand as they are restricted and will not flow freely when raising the main. I hope the diagram is helpful. Thanks, Ron
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File Type: pdf in boom reefing.pdf (543.8 KB, 371 views)
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Old 01-08-2011, 13:28   #6
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Re: 'Reefing Madness' - Angst Revisited

I tuck and shake at 30 to 60 deg.

On shaking a reef when the halyard is fully up I bring the boat right up to the wind and shake the crap out of the sail. That fixes the reefing lines
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Old 01-08-2011, 13:32   #7
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Re: 'Reefing Madness' - Angst Revisited

I believe that is single line reefing. I think the problem is the double block inside the boom. You are pulling up on the halyard and the line inside the boom has to overcome the drag of the block trying to move towards the back end of the boom while going around 5 sheaves.

If you take hold of the line just above the sheave mounted on the mast and pull up, how much friction is involved?

I think roverhi has given you good advice above.
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Old 01-08-2011, 14:20   #8
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Re: 'Reefing Madness' - Angst Revisited

DeepFrz, I have felt from the first time I reefed the boat, there was a restriction problem. It was never taking, but shaking the reef. And, we have reefed the boat hundreds of times. But, I have also thought for a long time that it was a poor design and your's and Peter comments in re: the number of blocks involved (five) are a testament and corroboration to that theory. I'm going to check the fairness of the leads at the gooseneck and see if there are any restrictions there as well. I think Mark's advice would be good if there weren't any design flaws, but I do believe this is a very poor reefing design. And, if I can't get it to work smoothly, easily and properly, I will be forced to install an external Jiffy reefing system that is easily reefed as well as maintained. Thanks, Ron
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Old 01-08-2011, 16:22   #9
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Re: 'Reefing Madness' - Angst Revisited

You don't need to install a jiffy reefing system, just get rid of the blocks in the boom and go with two line reefing, separate lines for the tack and clue. That is if those blocks are the problem and I would say they probably are. Takes quite a bit of force to pull line through that many sheaves. I assume you've run the reefing lines back to the cockpit.

My boat is set up for triple reef points. I've got 3 clew and 3 tack lines led to each side of the cabin top aft. The 3/8" tack lines go to the stbd side along with the main halyard. Have an Anderson 12st winch for the main halyard but could have gotten away without that winch if I'd run the Halyard to the clew side of the cabin top. The topping lift, outhaul and clew lines go to the stbd side with an Anderson 12st winch to tension the foot of the reef. Went with 7/16" line for the clew because I make long passages and chafe can be an issue with a reef tied in for weeks at a time.

In your case, to go with two line reefing, you'll need to rig a separate set of tack reefing lines or go forward and hook the tack to the boom. If you run the tack lines back, you'll need a set of blocks to turn the lines to the cockpit and a way to secure them at the aft cabin top. No winch required. The tack lines pull the reef tack down easily and secured with just arm strength. They primarily take a static load once the luff is retensioned and the strain is taken on the clew so you don't need large blocks or line diameter. Fairleads would probably work on the mast at the gooseneck and 57mm blocks on the deck to turn the lines back to the cockpit. You could go with only a single cleat on the cabin top but I chose to use a Schaeffer triple line clutch set for 3/8" line.

Pull the clew reefing blocks out of the mast and run the lines from the boom, through the clew cringle, into the boom as now, out the gooseneck and back to the cabin top. Probably will mean you'll have to buy new, longer clew reef lines.

You've probably thought of it, but what about taking the load on the topping lift as you shake out the reef then release it when the halyard is tensioned and pull the clew/boom down with the mainsheet.

If you chose to go with doing the reefing at the mast, a single winch on an angled down mount on the mast below the boom will work. You could probably do this with your current set up as you could feed the reefing line into the boom since you will be standing there.
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Old 01-08-2011, 16:29   #10
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Re: 'Reefing Madness' - Angst Revisited

Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
I do believe this is a very poor reefing design.

Hi Ron,

You could take the boom off and take it to a rigger.

Or if Riggers come at a reasonable price where you are you could drag one out and see what he has to say.


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Old 01-08-2011, 17:50   #11
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Re: 'Reefing Madness' - Angst Revisited

Where at the mast are you pulling the lines which makes it shake out? How can a problem with the lines in the boom be part of the problem if you are pulling the lines at the mast? How can it be tht you can pull the line, but can't winch the harlyard up. Is it getting stuck somewhere along the cabin top?

I had a similar system on my last and current boat and don't have a problem taking the reef out.

How about some pictures?
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Old 01-08-2011, 19:58   #12
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Re: 'Reefing Madness' - Angst Revisited

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Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
Are you talking about boom furling or single line reefing? Your reference leads me to think in boom furling but your description sounds like "single line reefing". A picture or reference URL would help.
Yes, I think I was mistaken, he is simply having trouble with slab reefing ...no?
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Old 02-08-2011, 01:09   #13
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I Just replaced an isomat boom with a brand new sparcraft boom. The isomat is now sparcraft. And they got rid of the old double block inside the boom. Now is as simple as it gets, and It works great. Take out that block, just lead the line from the bail, through the cringle, then to the end of the boom and then straight to the goose neck, and that's it!!
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Old 02-08-2011, 15:00   #14
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Re: 'Reefing Madness' - Angst Revisited

Thanks all for the great replies. I believe the issue is either the diameter of the line, a constriction at the gooseneck where the lines exit, pressure on the lines from a fully loaded boom or the numerous fairleads involved. I'm going to look at it again this weekend and will report my findings. I may ultimately try re-rigging it internally as some of you have suggested. I prefer simple systems that have a predictable result and I still believe this is a poor design. Thanks, Ron
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Old 02-08-2011, 15:08   #15
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Re: 'Reefing Madness' - Angst Revisited

Ron, take a look at this Sparcraft pdf. It has a nice drawing of the explanation from Maxsoto.

http://www.sparcraft.com/uk/products...dprixbooms.pdf

This is the way I have always thought of "single line reefing" systems to be set up.
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