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Old 27-09-2015, 09:02   #46
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Re: Re-Rigging: What is best 1X19 wire brand/manufacturer?

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Originally Posted by mikereed100 View Post
Ouch. A single shroud done in covered Dux on my boat would cost $2,268, roughly 7 times the cost of wire. Still, if it meant the shrouds never again needed replacement, it could be cost effective in the long run.
YOWZA!

Let's hope this stuff will come down to reasonable prices when it gets more common!
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Old 27-09-2015, 09:32   #47
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Re: Re-Rigging: What is best 1X19 wire brand/manufacturer?

Ya, i am not advocating it, the price is just too high. I'd rather go to carbon rod for that price. I am using uncoated Dux on my trimaran and just assume I will replace it every five years. It's still far easier to deal with than wire, and a good bit cheaper.
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Old 27-09-2015, 10:00   #48
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Re: Re-Rigging: What is best 1X19 wire brand/manufacturer?

In stainless under high stress, rust is only a cosmetic issue. 300 series stainless exposed to chlorides get intergranular corrosion. This appears as tiny cracks and will lead to sudden failure.
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Old 27-09-2015, 10:00   #49
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Re: Re-Rigging: What is best 1X19 wire brand/manufacturer?

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Ya, i am not advocating it, the price is just too high. I'd rather go to carbon rod for that price. I am using uncoated Dux on my trimaran and just assume I will replace it every five years. It's still far easier to deal with than wire, and a good bit cheaper.
Do you really find it cheaper? I am in the process of replacing my standing rigging and have been pricing out different options. I am finding that wire is cheaper by far. Disregarding the cost of the end fittings, which are slightly cheaper for synthetic, wire costs $6.30/ft for 14mm 1x19, Dux is $19.37/ft for 18mm (sized for equivalent stretch). In addition, the synthetic lines are 9' longer to allow for splicing. For my 54' shrouds this represents $340 for wire vs $1,220 for Dux.
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Old 27-09-2015, 12:01   #50
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Re: Re-Rigging: What is best 1X19 wire brand/manufacturer?

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Yes, I have seen much rusty 304 rigging wire, but I don't know the providence of it.

Rust streaks from 304 are due to the piece itself. On a bolt, that might result in rust steaks on the surrounding fiberglass, but on rigging wire it would result in propagated streaks down the wire - which would look like rusting wire (which it is).

If you are using passivated or polished 304 or 18-8, then these will retain much resistant to rusting for longer times. Try scratching one and seeing how it handles conditions.

Also, I don't think soaking in salt water is as harsh as living in salt spray. The latter presents much more concentrated attack and localized chemical conditions.

Mark
Possibly more significant is the difference in location, My last "hole in the water that consumes all my money" was a 50 year old Folkboat with 50 year old stainless rigging, keelbolts, fittings etc.... A bit scary, given their age, but they were all in great condition, as the boat spent the last 50 years in a cold climate (the Baltic). My current boat is only 15 years old, but arguably shows more signs of corrosion, having spent a fair bit of time in the Caribbean/Med......

One thing to keep in mind on internet forums, is that they connect people from all over the world and depending where on this little planet you happen to live will influence A: the sailing conditions/risk factors you encounter, and B: how various materials hold up over time in your neck of the woods.

The internet is a great resource, but if "local knowledge" and the "forums" contradict each other, I'd go with what the locals say... YMMV...
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Old 27-09-2015, 13:45   #51
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Re: Re-Rigging: What is best 1X19 wire brand/manufacturer?

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Originally Posted by mikereed100 View Post
Do you really find it cheaper? I am in the process of replacing my standing rigging and have been pricing out different options. I am finding that wire is cheaper by far. Disregarding the cost of the end fittings, which are slightly cheaper for synthetic, wire costs $6.30/ft for 14mm 1x19, Dux is $19.37/ft for 18mm (sized for equivalent stretch). In addition, the synthetic lines are 9' longer to allow for splicing. For my 54' shrouds this represents $340 for wire vs $1,220 for Dux.
But you can't disregard the cost of end fittings. My 24' tri has $28 in end fittings total. All of which are reusable when I need to change the line in a few years.

Secondly Dux is rarely sized for equivilant stretch, it is sized for creep. You may want to give John Franta at Colligio a call and ask what he would recommend. As an example, Dux tends to use less pretension since there is no unwinding of the wires. This means the spec load may be lower, and thus less stretch. On a boat this size I would certainly want an experts advice.
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Old 27-09-2015, 14:24   #52
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Re: Re-Rigging: What is best 1X19 wire brand/manufacturer?

Has anyone ever considered if synthetic rigging may just blow apart in a lightning strike, resulting in the rig coming down?
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Old 27-09-2015, 15:08   #53
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Re: Re-Rigging: What is best 1X19 wire brand/manufacturer?

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Has anyone ever considered if synthetic rigging may just blow apart in a lightning strike, resulting in the rig coming down?
I don't think there's any danger of that. HDPE is a very poor conductor. In fact, more of an insulator than a conductor. The charge will pass unimpeded down the mast where it can arc to crew in the cabin.
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Old 27-09-2015, 15:22   #54
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Re: Re-Rigging: What is best 1X19 wire brand/manufacturer?

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But you can't disregard the cost of end fittings. My 24' tri has $28 in end fittings total. All of which are reusable when I need to change the line in a few years.

Secondly Dux is rarely sized for equivilant stretch, it is sized for creep. You may want to give John Franta at Colligio a call and ask what he would recommend. As an example, Dux tends to use less pretension since there is no unwinding of the wires. This means the spec load may be lower, and thus less stretch. On a boat this size I would certainly want an experts advice.
I used to think Dux was sized for creep as well, but it turns out it is primarily sized for equivalent stretch. This will yield a shroud that will have very little creep. (It was John who recommended 18mm for equivalent stretch).

Unfortunately, there is a world of difference between a 24' tri and a 46' cat. Rigging costs go up linearly to a point, then they seem to go up exponentially. End fittings for a single shroud on my cat would be nearly $500 for Dux, the same as for Hi-mod mechanical fittings. Both are re-usable.

I am trying hard to justify the cost difference as I feel much more comfortable with Dux vs wire due mostly to inspect-ability and reduction in failure points. The weight difference is a bonus, although not so much when viewed as a percentage of my total rig weight.
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Old 27-09-2015, 15:27   #55
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Re: Re-Rigging: What is best 1X19 wire brand/manufacturer?

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I don't think there's any danger of that. HDPE is a very poor conductor. In fact, more of an insulator than a conductor. The charge will pass unimpeded down the mast where it can arc to crew in the cabin.
Fiberglass + wood is a poor conductor too, yet lightning blows holes in it......
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Old 27-09-2015, 16:26   #56
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Re: Re-Rigging: What is best 1X19 wire brand/manufacturer?

Ya for a 46' cat you are pretty close to the crossover threshold where Dux just doesn't work as well (typically the threshold is 50' on a cat). Past this the line gets too big, too expensive, and other options start looking better.

To some extent it depends on your price sensitivity and travel patterns, but I would seriously consider carbon rod rigging. The price is likely to be 2-3 times the price of wire, but... And it's a huge but... There is no real service life for it. The Gunboat 45 Cream has about 150,000 logged miles on its ECsix where traditional rod would be recommended to be replaced between 20 and 30,000nm, wire would be a little less.

The reason is the carbon rods are immune to corrosion, and cycle loading, and instead of stainless fittings they use G5 titanium that is immune to corrosion in the marine environment. So as long as the rigging isn't physically damaged it should last forever.
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