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Old 26-09-2015, 08:51   #31
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Re: Re-Rigging: What is best 1X19 wire brand/manufacturer?

Colligo currently recommends replacement in 5-8 years in the tropics due to UV degadation. This stuff is still quite new and expectations are that it will go longer. To my mind the main advantages of synthetic are inspect-ability and weight reduction aloft. I could reduce my rig weight by 50 lbs by replacing my stainless cap shrouds with synthetic. Picture a full 5 gallon jerry jug hoisted halfway up the rig for comparison. The main disadvantage is cost. Nearly 60% more on my boat for synthetic vs wire when sized for equivalent stretch.

Concerning Dyform, the folks at Rigging Only believe that it is no longer available due to lack of volume but that "compressed wire" is available as a substitute. The OP mentioned that he is using mechanical fittings which I believe are not compatible with Dyform in any case.
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Old 26-09-2015, 09:18   #32
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Re: Re-Rigging: What is best 1X19 wire brand/manufacturer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikereed100 View Post
Colligo currently recommends replacement in 5-8 years in the tropics due to UV degadation. This stuff is still quite new and expectations are that it will go longer. To my mind the main advantages of synthetic are inspect-ability and weight reduction aloft. I could reduce my rig weight by 50 lbs by replacing my stainless cap shrouds with synthetic. Picture a full 5 gallon jerry jug hoisted halfway up the rig for comparison. The main disadvantage is cost. Nearly 60% more on my boat for synthetic vs wire when sized for equivalent stretch.

Concerning Dyform, the folks at Rigging Only believe that it is no longer available due to lack of volume but that "compressed wire" is available as a substitute. The OP mentioned that he is using mechanical fittings which I believe are not compatible with Dyform in any case.
Dneema rigging (using dynex dux) uncovered is being given a 5-8 year life in the carribean. But they have come out with a coated option that is rated to last at least as long as wire.
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Old 26-09-2015, 09:46   #33
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Re: Re-Rigging: What is best 1X19 wire brand/manufacturer?

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Yes, I have seen much rusty 304 rigging wire, but I don't know the providence of it.

Rust streaks from 304 are due to the piece itself. On a bolt, that might result in rust steaks on the surrounding fiberglass, but on rigging wire it would result in propagated streaks down the wire - which would look like rusting wire (which it is).

If you are using passivated or polished 304 or 18-8, then these will retain much resistant to rusting for longer times. Try scratching one and seeing how it handles conditions.

Also, I don't think soaking in salt water is as harsh as living in salt spray. The latter presents much more concentrated attack and localized chemical conditions.

Mark
Hhmm maybe I will setup a test with salt water spraytwice a day and a heat lamp. I don't think the fasteners I used were polished or passivated but I will try scratching with a file.

I'm just interested as my limited knowledge of metalurgy says that 304 should be fine in a salt spray environment.
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Old 26-09-2015, 10:01   #34
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Re: Re-Rigging: What is best 1X19 wire brand/manufacturer?

304 or 316 are both fine strength wise and corrosion wise. The key is not which alloy, but the maker and consistency of the production process. many old boats you see out there in marinas have 302 or 304 wire and are still pretty good after 30 years.
The problem lately seems to be bad runs of wire of any alloy. Either that or the stories we hear and see are wire that has been abused in some way and the author does not tell us that. Unless we know where those bad examples were made and what the problem was, buyers of new wire are shooting in the dark.
Problems could be part of the processing and have nothing to do with strength or chemical analysis of the SS. But if I had to choose between buying from a seller who strength tested or provided chem analysis, I would choose the chem analysis.
As an engineer in the Aero industry for years, I often had to solve issues like this. 99% of the time the material was per spec strength and chemical analysis wise. The specs are somewhat broad. Often it's how the material is processed that is the problem.
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Old 26-09-2015, 10:22   #35
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Re: Re-Rigging: What is best 1X19 wire brand/manufacturer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikereed100 View Post
Colligo currently recommends replacement in 5-8 years in the tropics due to UV degadation. This stuff is still quite new and expectations are that it will go longer. To my mind the main advantages of synthetic are inspect-ability and weight reduction aloft. I could reduce my rig weight by 50 lbs by replacing my stainless cap shrouds with synthetic. Picture a full 5 gallon jerry jug hoisted halfway up the rig for comparison. The main disadvantage is cost. Nearly 60% more on my boat for synthetic vs wire when sized for equivalent stretch.

Concerning Dyform, the folks at Rigging Only believe that it is no longer available due to lack of volume but that "compressed wire" is available as a substitute. The OP mentioned that he is using mechanical fittings which I believe are not compatible with Dyform in any case.
Stalock have special wedges to fit Dyform in their terminals, no problem so far.
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Old 26-09-2015, 10:41   #36
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Re: Re-Rigging: What is best 1X19 wire brand/manufacturer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
Dneema rigging (using dynex dux) uncovered is being given a 5-8 year life in the carribean. But they have come out with a coated option that is rated to last at least as long as wire.
Who is "they"? The same folks who came out with Dynex Dux or another entity? And is the coated stuff for lifelines only. That is the only size I've seen coated dyneema available for--small stuff.

Thanks!

PS--someone mentioned galvanized rigging. It is a good long lasting option but that's only an affordable option in certain sizes (well, at least this is a true statement in 2009 when we re-rigged our schooner). We needed 3/8" 1x19 and couldn't get it.

I could get smaller and I could get 1/2" or larger affordable here in the USA but to get 1x19 in 3/8" I had to go to a UK company and the price was more than twice stainless steel 1x19. I had 800 ft of the 3/8" 1x19 wire to purchase so it wasn't a small order. Riggers who can buy 5000ft or more (10K ft required depending on which Loos person you talk to...they're not consistent in their story...) can purchase directly from Loos 1x19 galvanized at a good price. I couldn't use 5K ft of 3/8 1x19 galvanized rigging wire.
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Old 26-09-2015, 14:02   #37
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Re: Re-Rigging: What is best 1X19 wire brand/manufacturer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by travellerw View Post
Hhmm maybe I will setup a test with salt water spraytwice a day and a heat lamp. I don't think the fasteners I used were polished or passivated but I will try scratching with a file.

Man, you have more free time than me! Are you bored with cruising already?!

I'm just interested as my limited knowledge of metalurgy says that 304 should be fine in a salt spray environment.
304 should be just fine, but will likely require more maintenance unless you like the rusty look. As an example, I picked up two cleats at two different places a while ago. I didn't notice that one of them was 304 and the other 316. They looked exactly the same (and were the same size and style). After <1 year, I was so tired of cleaning the rust off of the 304 cleat while the 316 stayed perfect, that I got rid of it and replaced it with another 316.

A similar example was made when we broke one of our two 316 fishing rod holders and I replaced it with a 304 one. That one is now getting surface rust that needs to be polished monthly or so, while the old 316 holder is still looking new.

None of the 304 is corroding to the point of structural issues - just maintenance issues.

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Old 26-09-2015, 14:20   #38
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Re: Re-Rigging: What is best 1X19 wire brand/manufacturer?

fwiw:

In 1984 I re-rigged our boat (IOR one-tonner by Palmer Johnson) with Nitronic 50 1x19 wire purchased from a mill somewhere back on the East coast. Don't remember the name... we used Sta-Lok terminals (made from 316) and felt that it was a nearly "forever" rig. Sadly, in 1996 we were dismasted and lost it all to the Tasman. The dismasting was due to a clevis pin coming out, not broken wire. Prior to that, the wire looked like new with no corrosion or discoloration whatsoever.

Sometime after the purchase, the producing company was bought out by a Chinese firm, disassembled and sent off to China. To my knowledge, no one else has manufactured such wire since. I wish they did!

On subsequent rigs, I have used Dyform with either Sta-Lok or Norseman terminals, with excellent results.

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Old 26-09-2015, 15:16   #39
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Re: Re-Rigging: What is best 1X19 wire brand/manufacturer?

Am I to assume from this discussion that there is not a single US-based manufacturer of stainless steel wire/rope? Not even one??
Damn!


To answer my own question, Loos and Co. are still manufacturing in the US:

http://www.loosco.com/corporate/

They have 1x19 in both 304 and 316. Now you can avoid off-shore sourced wire.
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Old 26-09-2015, 16:28   #40
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Re: Re-Rigging: What is best 1X19 wire brand/manufacturer?

"Compacted Strand" wire is what's used/sold in lieu of Dyform anymore, & as already mentioned, there are plengty of mechanical terminal fittings for it.

When it comes to Dynux Dux, & similar synthetic rigging, how do folks deal with the possible issue of burn through? Where in a fast moving sheet with a load of some significance on it, drags over the shroud(s) & damages things..
I know that several prominent racing boats have lost their rigs due to this.

Other than that, I love the idea of the stuff. Between pulling a hugh amount of weight out of the rig, & having DIY shrouds, with very lengthy lifespans, it's a grand idea IMO.
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Old 26-09-2015, 16:39   #41
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Re: Re-Rigging: What is best 1X19 wire brand/manufacturer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by redsky49 View Post
Am I to assume from this discussion that there is not a single US-based manufacturer of stainless steel wire/rope? Not even one??
Damn!


To answer my own question, Loos and Co. are still manufacturing in the US:

About Us - Loos & Co., Inc.

They have 1x19 in both 304 and 316. Now you can avoid off-shore sourced wire.
Like I mentioned earlier, Loos is crap now. Used to be excellent, but the several riggers I have recently talked to won't touch the stuff anymore.

Plus, I don't think any of the European boaters here would consider ACMO "off-shore sourced".

Mark
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Old 26-09-2015, 17:11   #42
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Re: Re-Rigging: What is best 1X19 wire brand/manufacturer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Hhmm maybe I will setup a test with salt water spraytwice a day and a heat lamp. I don't think the fasteners I used were polished or passivated but I will try scratching with a file.

Man, you have more free time than me! Are you bored with cruising already?!

I'm just interested as my limited knowledge of metalurgy says that 304 should be fine in a salt spray environment.
Nah I'm not cruising full time yet. Still refitting and bouncing back and forth between the boat and "regular life" (the airlines love me). Since we have started the great selloff, I have a ton of time as we don't have any entertainment items left.
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Old 26-09-2015, 19:05   #43
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Re: Re-Rigging: What is best 1X19 wire brand/manufacturer?

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Originally Posted by Schooner Chandlery View Post
Who is "they"? The same folks who came out with Dynex Dux or another entity? And is the coated stuff for lifelines only. That is the only size I've seen coated dyneema available for--small stuff.

Thanks!

PS--someone mentioned galvanized rigging. It is a good long lasting option but that's only an affordable option in certain sizes (well, at least this is a true statement in 2009 when we re-rigged our schooner). We needed 3/8" 1x19 and couldn't get it.

I could get smaller and I could get 1/2" or larger affordable here in the USA but to get 1x19 in 3/8" I had to go to a UK company and the price was more than twice stainless steel 1x19. I had 800 ft of the 3/8" 1x19 wire to purchase so it wasn't a small order. Riggers who can buy 5000ft or more (10K ft required depending on which Loos person you talk to...they're not consistent in their story...) can purchase directly from Loos 1x19 galvanized at a good price. I couldn't use 5K ft of 3/8 1x19 galvanized rigging wire.
Sorry the coated stuff is branded as Colligio Dux, as far as I know it is dux with a cover added at the factory as an OEM part to Colligio, but I wouldn't swear to that.


Vela sailing has it available up to 18mm (MBL 103,000lbs). I have no idea about any larger. Colligo Marine - Covered Dynex Dux 16mm core/20 mm cover
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Old 27-09-2015, 07:18   #44
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Re: Re-Rigging: What is best 1X19 wire brand/manufacturer?

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Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff View Post

As for 304 showing rust in the tropics but not 316 that is only anecdotal. Rust on 304 or 316 is due to something ferrous based on or in the surface of the wire. A contaminant of some sort.

This can be from airborne sources such as someone grinding near your boat or from airborne particulates. Brake dust near a highway is a great ss contaminant. Once you have a contaminant present then you'll attract more.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
Patently un true.....

316 has 2% more nickel and 2% moly

The moly is there to specifically wistand corrosion from CHLORIDES

Something you might find in H2O that has a decent concentration of NaCl...

(Can you see the lake boaters smiling? )
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Old 27-09-2015, 08:47   #45
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Re: Re-Rigging: What is best 1X19 wire brand/manufacturer?

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Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
Sorry the coated stuff is branded as Colligio Dux, as far as I know it is dux with a cover added at the factory as an OEM part to Colligio, but I wouldn't swear to that.


Vela sailing has it available up to 18mm (MBL 103,000lbs). I have no idea about any larger. Colligo Marine - Covered Dynex Dux 16mm core/20 mm cover
Ouch. A single shroud done in covered Dux on my boat would cost $2,268, roughly 7 times the cost of wire. Still, if it meant the shrouds never again needed replacement, it could be cost effective in the long run.
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