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Old 26-06-2018, 00:07   #1
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Re-rigging boat with DUX - Help!

Hi, I am new to this dyneema splicing stuff, but have attempted a few eyes and watched a couple of videos, so it wasnít much of a leap to decide to re-rig the entire boat all by myself using DUX. Anyway, needless to say I need a little help. For each stay I plan to have a shackle attached to the chainplate, connected to a strop which is lashed to the stay which attaches to the mast via a T-ball fitting.

I have 3 issues:

1. How do I pre-stretch everything at home before fitting to the boat? Any great homemade solutions out there?
2. The strop is going to be quite long given the 72 x diameter rule. Is there any way to make them shorter? I am using the same diameter rope as for the stays. I figured I could overlap the tails by about 2/3 where the taper starts. Any other solutions?
3. Lashing - how do I attach the lashing, tension it then secure it? The strop and stay ends will have a low friction ring for lashing. What is the best way to put it together for ease of tensioning? Iíve seen a couple of solutions on the internet (riggingdoctor.com, etc), but that just looks too time consuming and would be too difficult to do under sail IMO. Has anyone come up with any other solutions?

Thanks for your suggestions!
Graham
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Old 26-06-2018, 06:33   #2
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Re: Re-rigging boat with DUX - Help!

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Originally Posted by fursoc View Post

1. How do I pre-stretch everything at home before fitting to the boat? Any great homemade solutions out there?

easiest/cheapest is to get a (or a couple) "come along" from home builder store. Use that to pre-tension/pre-stretch up the stays. You may need a decently long space to do this (depending on the length of the stays).

Some people have 'bump' pre-stretched dyneema pieces with their cars.
It apparently also works, but I don't really like it because it is not very controllable/repeatable.


2. The strop is going to be quite long given the 72 x diameter rule. Is there any way to make them shorter? I am using the same diameter rope as for the stays. I figured I could overlap the tails by about 2/3 where the taper starts. Any other solutions?

Why are you including this strop? Why not just connect stay to shackle? You plan to connect the strop to shackle, and your planned strop is the same diameter as stay, so you still have the same bend radius.

3. Lashing - how do I attach the lashing, tension it then secure it? The strop and stay ends will have a low friction ring for lashing. What is the best way to put it together for ease of tensioning? I’ve seen a couple of solutions on the internet (riggingdoctor.com, etc), but that just looks too time consuming and would be too difficult to do under sail IMO. Has anyone come up with any other solutions?

For anything other than quite small boats (would be helpful if you mentioned your boat size btw), lashings are difficult to work/manage, and most people find using turnbuckles much more convenient.

But with a lashing - you can tension it up with the above mentioned come-along (or a winch, or a hydraulic puller), then you 'clamp' the lashing to hold the tension (Can be done with a separate piece of rope work tightly around the lashing, or various mechanical clamps), and finally you release the line end from the tension device (come-along or other) and hitch it around the lashing (various friction hitch knotting options).


Thanks for your suggestions!

Can't say I think this is a totally great idea given your apparent level of knowledge, but good luck.

Graham
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Old 26-06-2018, 13:45   #3
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Re: Re-rigging boat with DUX - Help!

BlueWave have some nice looking rope riging terminals.

Blue Wave Hardware Stainless Steel Wire, Marine & Ropeline
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Old 26-06-2018, 14:43   #4
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Re: Re-rigging boat with DUX - Help!

No splice SS terminalsm Velly intellesting!!!! How do the things work and any down side??? A fitting that works like a StaLok on wire with Dyneema line would certainly make rigging with line easier and cleaner.


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BlueWave have some nice looking rope riging terminals.

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Old 26-06-2018, 15:07   #5
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Re: Re-rigging boat with DUX - Help!

The simplest common way to secure a LFR in a short strop is to splice a loop and then seize the ring in one end. That is how most of the commercial ones are made.
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Old 26-06-2018, 15:11   #6
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Re: Re-rigging boat with DUX - Help!

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No splice SS terminalsm Velly intellesting!!!! How do the things work and any down side??? A fitting that works like a StaLok on wire with Dyneema line would certainly make rigging with line easier and cleaner.
Sorry, you still need to splice. But Dux is very easy to splice. It's easier than 3 strand. Plenty of YouTube videos show how.

If you download the BlueWave catalog it shows how the terminals work.
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Old 26-06-2018, 16:04   #7
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Re: Re-rigging boat with DUX - Help!

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Sorry, you still need to splice. But Dux is very easy to splice. It's easier than 3 strand. Plenty of YouTube videos show how.
Wish that were the case. Currently splicing some 1/8" Dyneema single braid. Getting the buried portion of the line through braid is a major PITA. The videos show scrunching braid to open up the core and just slipping the fid through like a hot knife through butter. They must be photo shopping the videos because I can't get the proper Selma fid to slide into the hollow core more than a few inches before it hangs up like a Chinese finger cuff. Was only able to get the fid to move a few more inches into the braid with brute force. Bought a wire hook type device to try and pull the tail through the core. Was able to do it but only after a lot of work massaging lump where the head of the line in the puller kept hanging up. At least got the tail buried the reccomended 60 times the diameter of the line which I couldn't pushing it through with a fid. Could have done 4 StaLok fittings on wire in the time it took to do one Dyneema splice.

Would appreciate if anyone can tell me how to bury the tail with ease they show in the videos.
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Old 26-06-2018, 17:17   #8
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Re: Re-rigging boat with DUX - Help!

Try larger line. Much easier than 1/8 inch
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Old 26-06-2018, 17:34   #9
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Re: Re-rigging boat with DUX - Help!

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because I can't get the proper Selma fid to slide into the hollow core more than a few inches before it hangs up like a Chinese finger cuff.

Try a Splicing wand or similar rather than a fid - Works a treat
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Old 26-06-2018, 17:35   #10
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Re: Re-rigging boat with DUX - Help!

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..............
Thanks Evans.

The boat is a 40ft cat. Yes it is an ambitious project, but I am pretty good at those

The "come along" is a great idea. I will pick one up immediately. They look pretty cheap too.

The strop adds about 1.5 times more bend radius than the shackle. It also allows me a little more flexibility on where I lash. But you are right, the shackle is probably fine and I may end up just using it in some places.

For the final tensioning/connection, I had this idea of using the lashing to tension the stay, then once I have the correct tension use a larger rope with a "whoopie sling" type bury to hold it together. It would require 2 rings on each end, one for the lashings and the other for the final holding rope. And it would require the sling to be strong enough. Is there such a way to splice 2 rings into the end of one rope? Is that a crazy idea?
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Old 26-06-2018, 17:50   #11
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Re: Re-rigging boat with DUX - Help!

your boat is too big to use lashings. It will be very difficult to tension. Use toggles and terminator from Colligo. Tesnion like a wire stay.

Buy the dux pre stretched. Or put between two trucks or a tree and a tractor. Your still goign to have some constructional set when you go sailing. Tryst me tensioning under way in with lashings is not easy or fun .


I am speaking from experience.

there is a recent thread on this

ld
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Old 26-06-2018, 17:52   #12
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Re: Re-rigging boat with DUX - Help!

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Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
e done 4 StaLok fittings on wire in the time it took to do one Dyneema splice.

Would appreciate if anyone can tell me how to bury the tail with ease they show in the videos.
practice and splicing wand or D splicer
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Old 26-06-2018, 18:03   #13
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Re: Re-rigging boat with DUX - Help!

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Tryst me tensioning under way in with lashings is not easy or fun .
That is the reason I am looking for alternatives.
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Old 26-06-2018, 19:31   #14
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Re: Re-rigging boat with DUX - Help!

Well you've been given some sound advice/ alternatives by a few very experienced people.


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Old 26-06-2018, 20:41   #15
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Re: Re-rigging boat with DUX - Help!

A good friend who's boat is about 200 yards away has all Dyneema or whatever rigging except for the forestay as its a furler. He has eyes spliced in both ends, top ones go around a pin, and the bottom ones looped back on shackles. The shackle pin goes through the eye of the top of a turnbuckle, the bottom of the TB to the chain plates.
Rigged 11 years ago. He recently took the lower shrouds off to destruct test them. All four broke at minimum 98% of rated at the beginning of the splice that was at the bottom. Probably dirt/dust driven in by rain and settled at the bottom where friction thinned the fibers.
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