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Old 26-06-2018, 23:48   #16
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Re: Re-rigging boat with DUX - Help!

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Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
.

Would appreciate if anyone can tell me how to bury the tail with ease they show in the videos.
I watched one where he used 1mm wire, doubled it over, fed it up the cord and pulled the tail through the eye at the end of the wire loop, taped it so the tail didn't fold back and pulled it through. Still didn't go easily but it didn't look like a PITA.

That was 1/8th cord.
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Old 27-06-2018, 01:17   #17
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Re: Re-rigging boat with DUX - Help!

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Originally Posted by sy_gilana View Post
A good friend who's boat is about 200 yards away has all Dyneema or whatever rigging except for the forestay as its a furler. He has eyes spliced in both ends, top ones go around a pin, and the bottom ones looped back on shackles. The shackle pin goes through the eye of the top of a turnbuckle, the bottom of the TB to the chain plates.
Rigged 11 years ago. He recently took the lower shrouds off to destruct test them. All four broke at minimum 98% of rated at the beginning of the splice that was at the bottom. Probably dirt/dust driven in by rain and settled at the bottom where friction thinned the fibers.
Can't complain about that!

Have to admit, it was 10mm dux that I spliced. Did Brummel locking splices. Used the handle of a paintbrush as a fid. Easy. I can imagine much smaller could be difficult.
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Old 27-06-2018, 11:14   #18
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Re: Re-rigging boat with DUX - Help!

The way to adjust rigging tension with dead eyes is the old fashioned way. Take the boat out on a moderate day, 10-15 k wind. Tighten the Lee side as feels good, flip over on the other tack and do the same. Keep tacking, tightening and loosening the dead eyes till you have the right tension. Can’t see how you could get the proper tension any other way with dead eyes because of the all the friction of those turns around the dead eyes.
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Old 27-06-2018, 13:37   #19
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Re: Re-rigging boat with DUX - Help!

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Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
Wish that were the case. Currently splicing some 1/8" Dyneema single braid. Getting the buried portion of the line through braid is a major PITA. The videos show scrunching braid to open up the core and just slipping the fid through like a hot knife through butter. They must be photo shopping the videos because I can't get the proper Selma fid to slide into the hollow core more than a few inches before it hangs up like a Chinese finger cuff. Was only able to get the fid to move a few more inches into the braid with brute force. Bought a wire hook type device to try and pull the tail through the core. Was able to do it but only after a lot of work massaging lump where the head of the line in the puller kept hanging up. At least got the tail buried the reccomended 60 times the diameter of the line which I couldn't pushing it through with a fid. Could have done 4 StaLok fittings on wire in the time it took to do one Dyneema splice.

Would appreciate if anyone can tell me how to bury the tail with ease they show in the videos.
Whatever kind of fid you are using, take care to insert it very cleanly between strands. From the difficulty you had it sounds like strands may have been snagged as the Selma fid was inserted.

I find Selma fids can also snag easily sometimes as they are being pushed through. To help prevent this gently swirl the fid back and forth. Listen carefully. It should be a silent procedure. If you hear crackling then fibres are snapping because of snagging.

With wire fids or needle type fids it helps to fray the end of the dyneema a little and then feed only about 2/3 of the strands through the wire, simply doubling the rest of the strands back on themselves in a staggered way. This gives a much thinner entry. I can take a photo of this if the explanation is not clear. Again, swirl the fid back and forth initially to help pull the doubled dyneema through the entry point. If you keep the main body scrunched up at the same time, it really does slide through “like a hot knife through butter“.

Hope that helps.

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Old 27-06-2018, 15:46   #20
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Re: Re-rigging boat with DUX - Help!

Mahalo everybody for your suggestions on how to solve the Chinese Finger Cuff issue splicing Dyneema. I was careful not to snag any fibers using the Selma Fids. Pulled it out, reinserted it while twisting, etc. in many areas of the line to see if it was just the section of the line at the splice that was the issue but it still hangs up after a few inches. Was going to try soaking the line in vegetable oil to ease the fid through but thought better of that. These 7 decades old ears aren't going to hear any crackling of fibers breaking. I can barely hear my wife but she thinks that selective.

Bought a doubled wire puller especially made for small diameter line. It worked but still not easy to pull the line through. There was a lump where the wire hooked up to the end of the line. Managed to get it to feed through working each strand over the lump which was very time consuming. Will try and make a cleaner attachment of the line to the puller next time. Seaworthy Lass are you saying to essentially taper the line a bit before attaching it to the puller?? Thinking of tapering the end, would be easy to double the reduced line back on itself and tape making a cleaner junction. The reason I had a lump at the wire/line join was the wire kept pulling off the wire unless I had a bit of line extend beyond the apex point of the wire.

The first splice I did with the Selma fid doesn't have the 60-70 times the diameter of bury of the tail. Probably closer to 40-50 times the diamter of bury. It's a locking Brummel so not relying on the bury to keep the eye from pulling out. Wonder If I could just leave it and whip it near the thimble or do I need to cut the end off and start over. This piece is for a topping lift on my Pearson 35.
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Old 27-06-2018, 16:49   #21
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Re: Re-rigging boat with DUX - Help!

Rover , that bury is more than plenty for that application.

I just read did my topping lift with 8mm Deneen’s and stripped the core just after where the TL exits the sheeve. So 6mm singlebraid down against the sail. No more flogging . It’s awesome .
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Old 28-06-2018, 04:44   #22
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Re: Re-rigging boat with DUX - Help!

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Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
Seaworthy Lass are you saying to essentially taper the line a bit before attaching it to the puller?? Thinking of tapering the end, would be easy to double the reduced line back on itself and tape making a cleaner junction. The reason I had a lump at the wire/line join was the wire kept pulling off the wire unless I had a bit of line extend beyond the apex point of the wire.
I only feed about 2/3 of the strands through the puller and I simply double back the other 1/3 of the strands on themselves (they could be cut off, streamlining it further, I have just not found it was needed). Then I just trim very slightly to create a rough taper. It gives a fairly fine entry without a lump. In addition it helps tremendously to swivel the fid rather than just pulling it to get the junction inserted into the hollow core.

The photo below may help explain this better. I use a needle fid for larger diameters and a bit of SS wire doubled over for thinner stuff. I use the same threading method for both.
The junction has fluffed up in the photo but easily compresses to a slim profile.

It really does slide through like a hot knife through butter .

SWL
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Old 28-06-2018, 05:31   #23
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Re: Re-rigging boat with DUX - Help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
Mahalo everybody for your suggestions on how to solve the Chinese Finger Cuff issue splicing Dyneema. I was careful not to snag any fibers using the Selma Fids. Pulled it out, reinserted it while twisting, etc. in many areas of the line to see if it was just the section of the line at the splice that was the issue but it still hangs up after a few inches. Was going to try soaking the line in vegetable oil to ease the fid through but thought better of that. These 7 decades old ears aren't going to hear any crackling of fibers breaking. I can barely hear my wife but she thinks that selective.

Bought a doubled wire puller especially made for small diameter line. It worked but still not easy to pull the line through. There was a lump where the wire hooked up to the end of the line. Managed to get it to feed through working each strand over the lump which was very time consuming. Will try and make a cleaner attachment of the line to the puller next time. Seaworthy Lass are you saying to essentially taper the line a bit before attaching it to the puller?? Thinking of tapering the end, would be easy to double the reduced line back on itself and tape making a cleaner junction. The reason I had a lump at the wire/line join was the wire kept pulling off the wire unless I had a bit of line extend beyond the apex point of the wire.

The first splice I did with the Selma fid doesn't have the 60-70 times the diameter of bury of the tail. Probably closer to 40-50 times the diamter of bury. It's a locking Brummel so not relying on the bury to keep the eye from pulling out. Wonder If I could just leave it and whip it near the thimble or do I need to cut the end off and start over. This piece is for a topping lift on my Pearson 35.
Not sure from your description, but perhaps I had a similar problem with Selma fids. When trying to create a long bury where the fid was not long enough to hold the scrunched up standing part when doing the bury I first tried to insert the fid completely into the standing part, but it would not move any further (as you described). The solution was to use a piece of small diameter rod to push the fid. I used a piece of stainless TIG welding rod. Using that method I could easily push the fid back up the standing part as far as the length of the pusher rod.
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