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Old 11-08-2008, 21:42   #1
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Re-rigging

I've searched through the forums about re-rigging. All of the posts are pretty old. So, here are some of my questions. I recently purchased a Sunbeam 37 and thought that the standing rigging was OK. I had a rigger take a careful look at it and he suggested that she should be completely re-rigged. He thinks that the standing rigging might be the original rigging (1991). If so, I'm not surprised that the rigging needs replacing. Any comments or advice on that subject.
I've been talking to folks at Mack Sails in Stewart. They seem pretty good to me and most of the comments I've seen on line are very positive. I'd like to hear of anyone else's experience. (Send a private email to keep the flames down, if you like.)
I was quoted about $4000 to do the whole job...I haven't looked at the details but I assume that this is the cables and deck hardware (not chainplates). It sounds reasonable to me but, again, I'd be willing to listen to any one else's comments on price and quality.
Maybe there is a place for a thread about replacing the rigging. Things like how often, how much use on the old rigging, costs, issues of quality and workmanship, different kinds of materials, different kinds of hardware, etc.
I hope that others will feel free to add their $0.02.

Thanks
Bill
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Old 11-08-2008, 22:18   #2
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I recently replaced the standing rigging on my VandeStadt 40. The mast rigger who inspected my mast said that there was nothing actually wrong with the existing rigging, but that it was sufficiently old that my insurance probably wouldn't pay out if the stick fell down...
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Old 11-08-2008, 23:57   #3
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I am guessing that $4,000 USD is not bad but not a bargain either. For the budget minded person this is a job you could do yourself if you are handy with tools. You can also have the shrouds made up and replace them yourself.

Though for the hassle factor I might get a second quote, try to get a lower price and then write the check.

I recommend a thorough inspection of the chainplates. The rigger should do this inspection and provide a written findings report. i.e

"I inspected all the chain plates and attaching structures and have found no anomalies at this time."
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Old 13-08-2008, 14:31   #4
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That seems a little high to me for a 37. Last fall Paradise Yacht Services out of St. Pete, Florida, replaced our rigging with new wire and chrome plated bronz turn-buckles and our bill came in at under $3,000 including a back-stay with insulators for our SSB. Paradise is at 727-327-3334.

Good Lick!

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Old 13-08-2008, 15:52   #5
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Quote:
$3,000 including a back-stay with insulators for our SSB.
That price seems too good to be true.

The back stay insulators run $450. Most rigging jobs I've been quoted on run about 50% materials and 50% labor. For a 33 ft boat using all 9/32 SS cable and reusing the staylocks but replacing the wedges $1860 for the wire (Twin back stays and running back stays) and door prizes. They were going to throw in spartite all new Sheaves and halyards for a total of $4000 the insulators were extra. This was a bid about 3 years ago.

Bill there is a very good chance there is nothing at all wrong with the rigging. You'll just need to break it to prove it. At some point you just need to accept it's time. You really don't want to pop a shroud. It won't be on a calm day in the slip. It's more like to be middle of the thunderstorm with 60 knot gusts.
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Old 13-08-2008, 16:09   #6
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If your terminals are to be swaged on, be sure to get someone who does roller swaging. Avoid all Stainless turnbuckles, bronze /stainless is the best as the bronze naturally avoids galling. (Not sure if any of those high end turnbuckles are still made of all stainless or not.) If you are on a tight budget you could consider just the fore, aft and uppers.
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Old 13-08-2008, 17:45   #7
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Too Good to be True?

Actually, I erred. For our First 42, the rigging job completed by Paradise Yacht Services was done on September 12th, 2005, at the Bradenton YC in Florida and consisted of replacing the uppers, intermediate and lower shrouds including swaged T-ball fittings and swaged lower eye fittings and Chrome finished Bronze Turnbuckles, Toggles and Lock nuts; and, a replacement back-stay with swaged end fittings and upper and lower insulators. The baby-stay wasn't replaced nor was the forestay which had previously been replaced when a new Harken Roller Furling Gear was installed. Never-the-less, the total cost of the job was $2,878.30. The runners were replaced with 1/4" Spectra for $360.00 by Doug Fisher with Ullman Sails. (Receipts available upon request.)

So, even with inflation, $4K for a 37 foot boat seems a little bit high to me.

FWIW...

s/v HyLyte
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Old 13-08-2008, 18:48   #8
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Re-rigging your boat is not a big deal. You can do it yourself at lower cost, if you are willing to much of the work yourself. Okay, if you can't stand heights, forget it. If you can't hold a pair of pliers, while sitting in a bosun's chair, forget it.

Riggers are not suicidal. If they don't trust their judgement, they don't go up. Here's what they look for: Is there an obvious damaged terminal end at the bottom? What do you suppose is the strength of a missing shroud or stay? They are not putting a significant load by hoisting themselves up to the masthead, the load is on your halyards, multiple because you are supposed to be using two of them to transport you upward (hopefully not to heaven). Go to the masthead, with two halyards attached, and look around. See how the shroud or stay is attached. By a cotter pin or a ring (very unusual). Because the lower shrouds or stays support the lower section of the mast, removal of the upper shroud or stay won't cause serious problems. Simply back off on the tension of the turnbuckles on the opposite side of the shroud or stay you are removing. Surprise! The mast still stands. Go up and remove one of the shrouds or stays. Lower it to the deck with a line. Remove the lower attachment to the turnbuckle. Take it to the rigger and have them make a replacement. Repeat for the remaining shrouds and stays. It's good aerobic exercise, you get an entertaining view of your boat, and your neighbors think you are way cool. If you're lucky, you even survive to do it on future boats. It is also a skill to be learned if you ever want to go cruising and something bad happens "up there". It saves you a lot of bucks, as well.
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Old 13-08-2008, 18:56   #9
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The wire itself really doesn't "go bad." Unless there are meat hooks, you can freshen everything up with mechanicals on each end. Look at Sta-locks & Norsemen. The Hi-mods are popular with folks down here. I bought 4 recently (from Colin at Mack Sails, actually), and they are a breeze to put on. Just tape your wire tightly with electrical or rigging tape, get some extra sawzall blades (low speed) and then reterminate and put 'em back up. Four shrouds took me less than an hour, even though I had put off the project for weeks feeling that it was going to be a pain.
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Old 15-08-2008, 03:15   #10
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what age would rigging be considered past its "used by" 10 years was what I was told by a rigger
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Old 15-08-2008, 04:58   #11
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Insurance companies say 10 years in salt water. Some ask you how old the rigging is because they want to know the age. You can look at it a lot of ways but it really becomes hard to know for sure if it's bad unless it is really bad. I unlaid a forestay once. It was seriously bad. It was still standing but at some point you don't bet on it holding in a storm. After it happened I wouldn't sail the boat before fixing it.
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Old 15-08-2008, 05:59   #12
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S/S Standing rigging is generally expected to have a useful safe life of between 5 to 20 years, depending upon itís conditions of service:

In a fresh water environment with moderate humidity and negligible salinity, the life expectancy of the average standing rigging system is 15-20 years.

In a northern coastal environment with moderate humidity and moderate salinity the life expectancy of average standing rigging system is 10 to 15 years.

In a sub-tropical high humidity and high salinity environment, the life expectancy is more like 5 to 10 years .

Goto: Stainless-Good & Bad
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...bad-16010.html
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Old 15-08-2008, 09:30   #13
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I would imagine the high stress points would be right where the end fittings crimp/swage on. Cycle fatigue will take it's toll in those areas...the rigging and turnbuckle pivot points flex but the "hard spot" is right there. (put a coat hanger in a vise and bend it back and forth until it breaks. It breaks at the vise not in the middle) Any rigging I've seen with broken strands have been in that area. Stainless is subject to crack crevice corrosion if there are wet areas that do not get air or new water flushed through. (oxygen depletion) I'm not sure how air tight the twisted strands are. Personally, if it looks good and you can cut the wire back and put longer fittings on i would be tempted to go for it.... uless you plan a long/world cruise.
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Old 16-08-2008, 13:08   #14
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A rigger I knew told me how he does it.
He determines what type fittings are needed at the masthead. Some require "aircraft" eye fittings, which are narrower than standard ones.
He then measures for length, and adds a little bit to the length.
Then he goes to the place that swages the fittings and has all the shrouds and stays made with the top fitting swagged on.
Then he goes to the boat and replaces one at a time, and cuts to length and installs staylocks, on the bottom.
He did say never to let the mast stand with only 1 upper shroud supporting it. He claimed, winds, etc could cause some masts to bend.
It's easy to rig a halyard as a temporary support.
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Old 23-08-2008, 15:15   #15
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We've just replaced all our standing rigging. It had been up for 15 years! We use galvanised as we prefer to be able to see minor problems start- something which is hard to do on stainless steel. A friend of ours was told by his insurance company that he had to change his stainless steel rigging every 5 years otherwise his insurance would be invalid!
We did all the rigging change ourselves... it was surprisingly easy and given us loads more confidence with the rig. The rigger is going to come down and check it at some point but so far so good! If you enjoy being self sufficient or hands on, I'd definitely recommend it- and it saved a fortune.
Good luck
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