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Old 15-04-2010, 23:21   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Use the search function. There have been some EXTREMELY in-depth (not to say, impassioned) discussions of this on here, which you will find interesting.
I did look at past threads, but it was not always clear who was speaking from personal experience versus others just "pontificating" based on second hand knowledge, and ultimately, the key question is, would you get another, or not, as buying something again, or choosing not to, is a very concrete valuation.
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Old 16-04-2010, 01:04   #17
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I have a ketch and love the rig. It has a full keel and I have a love hate relationship with that. Love it at sea hate it getting in and out of the marina. But since you are usually in the marina or at sea and only going in or out a few minutes at a time. I'll take the full keel. We love Sari Timur but if we had unlimited cash to spend we would be tempted to go for a more modern ketch. Of course we might not give in to the temptation and have more money to spend while cruising as well. Something to be said for extra cash in the cruising kitty.

Cheers

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Old 16-04-2010, 05:05   #18
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- The Mizzen in the cockpit gives me somewhere conveniant to hang my coat

- The Mizzen rigging is very handily placed when climbing out of the dinghy

- At some point the mizzen mast will make a handy mounting point for a wind generator.

- Looks pretty
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Old 16-04-2010, 05:08   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickS View Post
I did look at past threads, but it was not always clear who was speaking from personal experience versus others just "pontificating" based on second hand knowledge, and ultimately, the key question is, would you get another, or not, as buying something again, or choosing not to, is a very concrete valuation.
Some of the second hand knowledge is also very valuable. Some very smart people on this board. The first hand accounts are great, but I would read up on the theory as well, if I were you. You even have the great yacht designer Bob Perry personally weighing in on the matter, in one or two of the threads here.

My personal experience is based on having had to choose been a ketch and a cutter last year when we bought our boat. I agonized quite a bit over it. In the end, the rig type was not the deciding factor.

Here is another really excellent analysis: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-r...ter-sloop.html
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Old 16-04-2010, 05:42   #20
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We have a centre cockpit, modified fin 40' ketch with a removable inner forestay, and a sizeable mizzen. We like having a ketch because the sails are smaller and easier to handle, because she balances reasonably well, and because down wind with just the genoa/cruisng chute and mizzen she sails well.

We do not right now have twin headsails but if we were planning on big ocean crossings we would use the yoke and rig an additional wire headstay in order to facilitate this.

No she doesn't point as well as a sloop would but she is very easy and forgiving in many ways. Should add that she's 33 years afloat this year, so not modern!

Would we buy another one? Probably, but it would depend, as always, what was in the market in our plausible geographic and price ranges. For cruising we would definitely go centre cockpit again, which always opens up the possibility of hanging some more canvas off the back.
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Old 16-04-2010, 14:12   #21
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I too have a cc Ketch (with an inner staysail). As the songs says “love the one your with”. As I single handle a lot the Ketch’s variety of sail/balance possibilities far out-weight any downside…Like feeding the genoa through the slot in light winds…which can be a PITA. Never the less should I ever consider changing then I believe that a ketch would be the more likely choice , although I wouldn’t be averse to looking at other options.

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Old 23-05-2010, 16:55   #22
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the ketch

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Originally Posted by PatrickS View Post
If and when you might consider moving to a new boat, would you prefer one with a ketch rig?

If so, why? If not, why not?


(Please, please, please, no comments and opinions from folks who have not or do not own a ketch and do not have extensive intimate personal experience, not merely second hand knowledge, or based on lots of research and logical deduction, etc. etc. etc. Thanks.)
.......
I sailed on a allied seawind in St Thomas and instantly was in love, it was very small and cockpit very cluttered for three people but mangeing the four sails was so much fun. we could set for self steer almost on any point. Then we delivered a 44 yawl back to Miami, being bigger, lots of cockpit room, it was an easy boat to sail but just not so fun as the little ketch. If I could another seawind ketch I would buy it. Mike
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Old 25-05-2010, 04:39   #23
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We have lived on our aft cockpit Ketch for a couple of years, we love her. Just this past weekend we had her out in the ocean on a day sail and finally got our mizzen staysail up. It gave us another knot plus with only the jenny and the staysail... and she balances so well I can take my hand off the wheel for long periods of time. We have a deep full keel and we were on a beam reach, but it was a beautiful sail. And we like the look. I know she will never be as nimble as some boats, but again, we love our Ketch.
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Old 25-05-2010, 06:12   #24
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We've been fulltime liveaboard cruisers aboard our ketch since 1985 and aboard sloops from 1971 to '85. I enjoy the varied sail presentations of my ketch and the clearance that allows me under some 55' bridges. I understand the decrease in windward performance that comes with the shorter leading edge and I realize that the former advantage of the split rig in handling the sizes of sails is gone with all the furling mains and mechanical advances. Their are so many compromises made in the choice of any vessel and these choices would not demand that I stay with a ketch in the future. I do like a cutter rig overall with all other factors equal, but I'm well pleased with my ketch and I have no desire to search for something else. Take care and joy, Aythya crew.
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Old 25-05-2010, 06:24   #25
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We have lived on our aft cockpit Ketch for a couple of years, we love her. Just this past weekend we had her out in the ocean on a day sail and finally got our mizzen staysail up.
PICTURES!!!
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Old 25-05-2010, 09:34   #26
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I would suggest a cutter rig instead of a ketch (see avitar). The staysail should be permanently mounted, not stacked on deck. This rig will give you as many sail options as the ketch but be easier to set and use.
I agree but only for a boat designed as a true cutter (small main, mast midships, two well spaced fore sails). Not so if the boat is a sloop-cum-cutter - these are very common today but they do not offer an alternative for a ketch.

Example of a cutter by design - Tayana 42, Vancouver 27, etc.

I have sailed ketches and would definitely go for a ketch, yawl or schooner myself, if the boat is beyond some LOA. A proper cutter below the size limit is just as good.

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Old 26-05-2010, 05:22   #27
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BOAT WEIGHT

*what is not been a point of discussion is the handling as a result of BOAT WEIGHT

We learned that on our 36' (Dutch) carbon modern cruiser......yes = NOT racer but with full interior; handling was easy due to planing when wind picked up
NO big heavy forces on winches/ropes nor on mast nor on rudder.........simply cruising along on 14+knots.Reefing main above 15+true and genoa furling it in from cockpit. Even hoisting the asy out of the 'slurf ' was no longer exiting (as it was on our non planing J-109 built in polyester)
No real need for racing crew; my wife and son could do most of the 'work'.

**unfortunately our 'final final' (read dream boat) is not yet on the market but just for the records it will be a modern designed hull out of carbon but center cockpit ketch of 47' with carbon spars and pbo rigging.

Our current newly purchased 23 years old Tashing Orion 50' of 17 tons + ketch will do nicely
Till we win the lottery........

With regards to all of us who keep on dreaming; Eric
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Old 26-05-2010, 20:14   #28
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**unfortunately our 'final final' (read dream boat) is not yet on the market but just for the records it will be a modern designed hull out of carbon but center cockpit ketch of 47' with carbon spars and pbo rigging.
As a side dish go google out the Ourson Rapide. You might like it too. Carbon and PBO, and aircon too.

barnie
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Old 27-05-2010, 01:18   #29
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If I could find a seawind allied 11, I would buy it

we sailed a ketch with inner, when carrying lack timber to music city, We also throu zebber word fwr africa timber mostly black iron ad some up to new orleans we use a fyling stay, it nerv did much, so we had five sail to keep her balanced. The current was 6 kts and not agame to ply with, Leaveing tht town it was the popsail that ws he bet but a fishermen would have one more hence the name the fisherman staysail ketch. Raf rig is too much work. Very differnt fromt eh sailboats pictures in the fanct magazines as the staysailschooner. they don't sail at all well but carry bigger holds.

Note the older seawind allied 1 is a much small boat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickS View Post
If and when you might consider moving to a new boat, would you prefer one with a ketch rig?

If so, why? If not, why not?


(Please, please, please, no comments and opinions from folks who have not or do not own a ketch and do not have extensive intimate personal experience, not merely second hand knowledge, or based on lots of research and logical deduction, etc. etc. etc. Thanks.)
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Old 27-05-2010, 02:54   #30
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yeah very sexy but too racy ; open cockpit and rudders not protected/ still same concept == great.

Would personally prefer 'my' design but the with extra high mizzen mast......dreaming
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