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Old 21-09-2016, 15:41   #16
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Re: Pros and cons of leading halyard and reef lines to cockpit?

We have everything needed for the first reef led to the cockpit, as well as the 2nd/3rd reef clew lines, with lazy jacks. I really like being able to put in and take out the 1st reef from the comfort of the cockpit. This reef gets used 100's of times as compared to the 2nd or 3rd reef on my boat. I do the first reef in or out by myself. 2nd/3rd I get the crew up to help.
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Old 21-09-2016, 16:16   #17
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Re: Pros and cons of leading halyard and reef lines to cockpit?

simple equation; >complexity=>chance sh*t will go wrong@worst possible moment.
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Old 21-09-2016, 16:33   #18
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Re: Pros and cons of leading halyard and reef lines to cockpit?

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simple equation; >complexity=>chance sh*t will go wrong@worst possible moment.
Is it the worst possible moment because you waited too long to reef because you needed to wake the off watch? All systems have trade-offs and there is no obvious choice as to cockpit vs mast reefing. There really are just pros and cons.
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Old 21-09-2016, 16:37   #19
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Re: Pros and cons of leading halyard and reef lines to cockpit?

We have (nearly) all lines in the cockpit. I love it this way. We have a small boat and it is not very safe on the deck when it is rough and we are running fast. I prefer doing all sail adjustments clipped securely into our cockpit strong point.

I am OK with lines at the mast on big boats that roll less and move less, less vigorously, and more predictably.

I have not noticed any extra friction on the lines. I can hoist full main without any help from the winches.

On a big boat I work for all sail control lines are on the deck, before the mast. This is also great and I can see very well what is going on. This is important when your mainsail weighs about 200 pounds and all your winches are powerful electric things.

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Old 21-09-2016, 16:37   #20
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Re: Pros and cons of leading halyard and reef lines to cockpit?

For me having lines led aft was less complicated rather than more. I guess it depends on what you are running and where and if there is room for it all under a dodger or whatever.
I agree with barnakiel that the size of the boat figures into it. Staysail and spinnaker certainly too...
I have a smaller boat too so raising sail is somewhat less demanding.
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Old 21-09-2016, 18:03   #21
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Re: Pros and cons of leading halyard and reef lines to cockpit?

Is the mast deck-stepped or keel-stepped David? If keel-stepped you'll need a tie rod.
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Old 21-09-2016, 18:16   #22
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Re: Pros and cons of leading halyard and reef lines to cockpit?

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Is the mast deck-stepped or keel-stepped David? If keel-stepped you'll need a tie rod.

Keel stepped. Good call, fortunately there is already a tie rod in place, not sure why since there's nothing pulling on the deck. If I do this mod I'll be sure to check that it's appropriately set up.

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Old 21-09-2016, 19:11   #23
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Re: Pros and cons of leading halyard and reef lines to cockpit?

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Keel stepped. Good call, fortunately there is already a tie rod in place, not sure why since there's nothing pulling on the deck. If I do this mod I'll be sure to check that it's appropriately set up.

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Tie-rod is there because with keel-stepped boats when the mast loads up the boat flexes and the deck around the mast rises relative to the mast and bottom of the boat. This can cause problems with mast and deck fitting alignment but the biggest issue is the potential to break the seal around the mast letting water in.


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Old 21-09-2016, 19:20   #24
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Re: Pros and cons of leading halyard and reef lines to cockpit?

Lines led to the cockpit with good thought to minimizing friction, layout and identification is only a positive IMHO.

The key is to test a layout before hard installing everything. This is easier said than done.

Roller furling jib is probably the best option to start with. A main without furling is a much more challenging contraption to tackle.

Trying to reef a non furling main without leaving the cockpit seems pointless. We've decided to wait until we're ready to replace our main with a Schaeffer boom furler. Then we'll route these lines to the cockpit.

We'll go from two reefs, lazy jacks, topping lift and mainsheet to a halyard and furling line. Much simpler to engineer well.

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Old 21-09-2016, 19:26   #25
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Re: Pros and cons of leading halyard and reef lines to cockpit?

Lots of good arguments for both cases here.

For me, bluewater soloing my 28 footer means fatigue management becomes a crucial issue. I often get to the point where every bit of additional exertion adds hugely to the burden. I found that modifying to allow cockpit reefing made life much easier in this regard than the previous at-mast set-up.

Regarding safety, I find staying in the cockpit to do almost everything (clipped on when it's rough of course), much more reassuring than clipping on/off to go forward. Especially at 3am in 30 knots!

But ymmv, to each his own etc etc.

Cheers, Graeme
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Old 21-09-2016, 20:37   #26
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Re: Pros and cons of leading halyard and reef lines to cockpit?

Maybe I missed it, but did you say whether you're single handing or short handing David? Anyway, it's always nice to be able to change gears without waking anyone up.
I'm wondering if it makes a big difference to this question if you're on a multihull? Having just gone to the "other" side, I'm loving the setup on the Seawind 1160. We're sailing as a family, (myself and admiral, plus 9 and 5 YO) , and the boat has almost everything led aft to one side of the boat or other. So we can hoist, reef, furl, just about anything, without leaving the cockpit. We haven't played with the kite yet, maybe next time.
So, is this just a very well set up design, or is this common to multihulls?
Btw, I'm in total agreement with the idea of regular deck checks as Uncivilized said.
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Old 21-09-2016, 20:54   #27
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Re: Pros and cons of leading halyard and reef lines to cockpit?

I've been on a chartered seawind 1160 in Australia and I think they've had most things sorted out properly from the initial get go. Hoisting the main solo was a little harder without someone at the mast - but definitely doable. I think the worst part of reefing was being afraid of blowing up the reefing block on the boom on a unmarked line/unfamiliar boat.
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Old 21-09-2016, 21:30   #28
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Re: Pros and cons of leading halyard and reef lines to cockpit?

I vote for halyards at the mast. Friction is one reason. Another is that there is probably something that needs tended anyway; The halyard was tied-off to prevent banging, the cover needs removed... something.

Genoa. It's on a furler. The odds of me lowering the genoa in a blow are remote.

Spinnaker. It's in a squeazer and I always have to untangle it a bit after getting it on deck. When lowering I have to guide it through the hatch.

Main. As I explained. For a monohull I will accept the case for ease of reefing, but only grudgingly.

Perhaps I would feel different with a mono, though I doubt it. If I sailed in extreme conditions... probably. But I like climbing on deck. It's part of sailing.

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Old 21-09-2016, 22:05   #29
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Re: Pros and cons of leading halyard and reef lines to cockpit?

David, since you are new to this boat maybe wait a while before you decide to make any changes. Consider the experience others have expressed here and compare that to your own.

The main halyard is led aft on my simple masthead sloop, nothing else. Furling headsail, no spinnaker, no lazy jacks. Jiffy reefing at the mast and topping lift mid boom cleated.

I hoisted the main from the cockpit for a few weeks originally but have done it from the mast for several years now. Didn't make sense to me. If reefing, had to be at the mast anyway. Dropping the main, had to control, flake, and tie the sail.

Just a coastal sailor though, no plans to cross oceans. Typical overnight hops to no schedule, winds to sail or don't go. Years of no drama except one 12 hour day hop that turned into 48 hours of dodging thunderstorms to make sixty miles.

So I don't really need all lines led aft, or the expense and complexity. Maybe you do, maybe you don't.
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Old 21-09-2016, 23:42   #30
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Re: Pros and cons of leading halyard and reef lines to cockpit?

If/when you're leading things aft, you want to use the lowest friction sheaves & blocks that you can, if that's not already obvious. Otherwise, yes, it can definitely be work to adjust the main from the cockpit.
Though on the initial hoist, the most sensible way to do things is to have one person jump the halyard at the mast, & the other tail it in the cockpit. With the crew in the cockpit grinding the final meter or two up with the winch.

Then, being able to reef & unreef from the cockpit saves wear & tear on the on watch crewman. And it also allows them to reef more easily solo, sans worrying about going to the mast each time.
Which is often a concern for inexperienced folks. And this can even lead to them put off reefing, or waking the skipper for assistance; sometimes until things are on the verge of being out of hand. So...
It's your call as to whether to rig things this way or not.

One other "trick" to make hoisting the main easier is to use a halyard that has it's cover stripped off for a good portion of it's length, on the section where the shackle is. Leaving just enough cover on it so that it has chafe protection when the main is hoisted to it's deepest reef/the trysail is up. This way you have a slippery, slender piece of 12-strand Spectra going over the sheave for at least half of the hoist. So that there's a lot less friction to things.

With this option, you can also paint the halyard/it's jacket with RP 25, or Maxi Jacket II, so that it's much more slippery. And this also has the perk of adding chafe resistance to the line/it's jacket. Since such coatings are much the same as those found on naked cores when they're new. AKA the bright, shiny, slippery stuff on them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SV DestinyAscen View Post
I've been on a chartered seawind 1160 in Australia and I think they've had most things sorted out properly from the initial get go. Hoisting the main solo was a little harder without someone at the mast - but definitely doable. I think the worst part of reefing was being afraid of blowing up the reefing block on the boom on a unmarked line/unfamiliar boat.
I'm unclear on how you might damage a block when reefing the main? The only way which comes to mind is if you're using a powered winch, & locking the line into the winch's self tailing jaws. Which is a big no no anyway, as lines should be tailed by hand when using them.
Also, prior to damaging a block, wouldn't you damage the sail first?
Or are there other things that else I'm missing? Clarification on this would be helpful please.


PS: Unless the main halyard is black, you can always mark it with a magic marker, & also draw a grided scale onto the deck or mast. This makes it easy to tell when the halyard is at the correct location for each sail setting. Specifically, it's full hoist, & each of it's reefs.
And if it is black or dark colored, 5min. with a needle & some dental floss, or sliver thread will let you add a witness mark to it pretty easily.
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