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Old 17-07-2018, 19:00   #1
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Profurl Issues

Folks,
I did a search and of course understand that I should scrap my old Profurl LC32 and get a Harken or Schaeffer. Having retired, I don't have the 'disposable' income I once did.
Word is that the 'nylon' bearings are shot in the swivel head piece causing excessive load trying to raise/lower. These appear to be finger like extrusions that get captured inside the head. (Not the ball bearings!)
I couldn't get much assistance from Profurl but believe these pieces aren't available.
I'm wondering if it would be possible to disassemble and then shim the case bore to take up some of the lash?
Anyone want to take a shot at this? It's just a bandaid to get on the water.


thanks for your kind considerations!
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Old 17-07-2018, 19:24   #2
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Re: Profurl Issues

Try calling Mack sails in Stuart,Florida Phone: (772) 283-2306. Colin Mack. 12 yrs ago I bought a Profurl from them. Maybe they can help.
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Old 17-07-2018, 21:12   #3
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Re: Profurl Issues

Not sure what your problem is. Is it raising the sail or roller reefing the sail. If it's the latter, it's probably caused by the seals in the furling mechanism failing allowing water into the steel ball bearings. Rusty bearing don't work worth a damn. Sometimes these ProFurls can be rebuilt with new seals and bearings. Problem is getting the fasteners out so you can disassemble the unit. Rigworks in San Diego are supposedly the best for servicing these old ProFurl units if you are anywhere near them. (rigworks.com)

Don't remember any bearings on the upper swivel to easy raising or lowering the sail. Have had issues with the sails luff tape hanging up in the groove in the foil extrusion which makes it awfully hard to raise a sail.
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Old 21-07-2018, 12:28   #4
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Re: Profurl Issues

Peter,
Thanks for reply.
The issue is raising and lowering. There are what appear from the exploded view to be 3/4 'guides' inside the swivel that are in parallel with the forestay and surround it providing a low friction channel for the swivel to follow up the wire. There is play in the swivel on the wire that shouldn't be there if these guides weren't worn I believe.
Ideas are welcome.
I will likely call the guy in FL to see what he recommends.


Best,
Rob
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Old 21-07-2018, 12:57   #5
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Re: Profurl Issues

Is this what you have?

https://forums.sailboatowners.com/in...-piece.116857/

Bill
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Old 21-07-2018, 13:08   #6
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Re: Profurl Issues

Bill,
It is the same except he seems to say he got the upper swivel bushed and he is now working on the lower which is quite different, at least my model. I will try to post a copy of the blow up diagram.
Very good effort on your part!
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Old 21-07-2018, 13:18   #7
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Re: Profurl Issues

Then maybe this is better...


I have the same problem with my top swivel.

Bill
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Old 21-07-2018, 13:41   #8
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Re: Profurl Issues

Yes! You have it exactly!
Sadly, I have the N or L or LI-31 apparently. I was incorrect with the LC32 which is still supported and probably has the 'plain' bearings shown.
The LC version is 1mm larger bore diameter for the stay extrusion so I would likely end up about where I am now if I installed that assembly. I don't have the dimensions to work out the lash.
You did well and maybe I shouldn't give up just yet. Somewhere out there someone may have figured out a way to tackle this problem.
Not that my extrusion only has a single track, not the two in parallel.


thanks for your valiant attempt,
Rob
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Old 21-07-2018, 15:28   #9
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Re: Profurl Issues

Mine is a 31... one groove and with a 31mm diameter foil. I replaced the bearings and seals in the lower unit a couple of years ago. I sent Sailing Service in Miami the lower unit, they tried to disassemble the lower unit, failed, and sent the lower unit back to me. I got it apart myself, and in the end did all the work myself with parts from Dixie Bearings, but their advice was critical. I think the fellow I dealt with there was Pedro Malax if my memory serves. They, in the end, were much more helpful that Profurl.

My upper unit no longer slides easily on the foil. So far, by bending the upper unit's tang to improve the alignment, I can ease its propensity to stick on the foil. So, the repair is for the time being low on my ever increasing list of boat jobs.

Bill
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Old 21-07-2018, 20:46   #10
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Re: Profurl Issues

Sounds just like mine Bill.
I am going to let it go this year. I have been working on her for the last month or so pretty hard after dropping in a new/used Yanmar last year and having her bottom stripped and put on one barrier to keep her dry. The bottom is done now except for one last coat of bottom paint before splash. I put on the exhaust riser on Friday and connected all but the heater hoses. The new heater comes in on Monday, but the tanks are disgusting so that's tomorrows job if I can work thru the weather. It'll be wet inside and out for this job!
Then I hope to give her a splash and see if she floats and on what water line.
I have two '89 Pacific Seacraft 31s. I felt sorry for this one as her owner had health issues and sort of abandoned her. She has the schell keel at 3'6" vs the other with 4'11". Should be nice for the upper Chesapeake bay.

If I can just find a buyer for boat #1 I will be a pretty happy guy!
Thanks for all your feedback. I'll let you know when I pull the furler down this winter. I have an inner stay for cutter rig so I should have a reasonably easy path... well not easy but you know.
Best wishes,
Rob
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Old 22-07-2018, 08:02   #11
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Re: Profurl Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by wsmurdoch View Post
Mine is a 31... one groove and with a 31mm diameter foil. I replaced the bearings and seals in the lower unit a couple of years ago. I sent Sailing Service in Miami the lower unit, they tried to disassemble the lower unit, failed, and sent the lower unit back to me. I got it apart myself, and in the end did all the work myself with parts from Dixie Bearings, but their advice was critical. I think the fellow I dealt with there was Pedro Malax if my memory serves. They, in the end, were much more helpful that Profurl.

Bill

Do you have any pearls of wisdom on doing this job?


I picked up a second hand profurl unit last year with the idea of using it on my staysail. Both the top and bottom bearings turn OK but are a little stiff, not sure how free these should turn. Just wondering how big a deal it is to change the seals and bearings for these units.
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Old 22-07-2018, 08:35   #12
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Re: Profurl Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by CGirvan View Post
Do you have any pearls of wisdom on doing this job?


I picked up a second hand profurl unit last year with the idea of using it on my staysail. Both the top and bottom bearings turn OK but are a little stiff, not sure how free these should turn. Just wondering how big a deal it is to change the seals and bearings for these units.
ProFurl Rebuild
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Old 22-07-2018, 10:54   #13
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Re: Profurl Issues

The steel bearings are packed in grease, so a little resistance but with smooth motion is normal. Roughness or slop is not.

I had five problems rebuilding my lower unit:

The stainless steel socket head cap screws were stuck solidly in the aluminum body. Sailing Services (Miami) tried to remove them after soaking the assembly in a bucket of vinegar but failed. I tried wetting the area around the screws with muriatic acid diluted to 10% HCl using a bit of cotton string to hold the acid in place while it worked on the white corrosion stuff. Between the acid and some excessive force, the screws came out with no real damage to the threads. (Liquid Wrench, PB Blaster, WD-40, and ATF/acetone were also tried.)

I had trouble removing and re-installing the snap rings. I bought four different pairs of snap ring pliers and then made my own oddly curved points for one of them. The rings were in an almost inaccessible location deep in the bore.

There was some corrosion damage to the inside of the unit. I filled the pits with JB Weld putty using temporarily installed snap rings, old seals, or bearings as forms to shape the putty. Then I cleaned up the messy bits of JB Weld with a file.

I should have done a better job of recording where each piece was located inside the bore. On reassembly I discovered that there were more than one way to put everything back together, and that there were locations in the bore for what might be other parts that are no longer used. It took me a couple of tries to get everything right.

It appeared to me that in manufacture the unit was filled with grease as it was assembled and that the excess grease escaped through a vent hole that was plugged with a steel ball after it was no longer needed. I knocked out the ball, tapped the hole, and after letting my excessive grease escape, I put a grease fitting in the hole. I can't actually add grease through that fitting as it just blows out the grease seals, but it sure looks nice.

All up, I probably spent $200 on the job not counting the shipping to and from Sailing Services and their charge.

You might also find these useful. https://www.allatsea.net/keep-rollin...-furling-gear/ and Profurl Bearings

Bill
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Old 22-07-2018, 19:08   #14
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Re: Profurl Issues

I just spent quite a bit of time replacing bearings and looking over the foils. I had to take the foils apart, as I was replacing the rig. In the process, most of the foil set screws had to be drilled out. I re-tapped with 1/4-28 set screws instead of the metric ones. One thing that was stopping the top swivel from smooth sliding was the ends where foils meet. If that's too loose, or has deformed aluminum, its sure a place to make the swivel get stuck, likely due to those plastic guides/inserts. I ended up using an angle grinder with scotch brite pad to run over foil ends and make sure swivel can run smoothly. I have not stepped the mast yet, but i sure hope I don't discover this issue after the fact. My inserts are pretty loose, and i have no signs of scratches on the foil.



With the stay assembled and on the ground, i can run the swivel pretty smoothly along the foils. Of course I have to lift the foil and there is a bend since the rest of it is on the ground. So I cant just shove the swivel and watch it slide.

But I am glad i am reading this now.
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Old 22-07-2018, 20:13   #15
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Re: Profurl Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by wsmurdoch View Post
Mine is a 31... one groove and with a 31mm diameter foil. I replaced the bearings and seals in the lower unit a couple of years ago. I sent Sailing Service in Miami the lower unit, they tried to disassemble the lower unit, failed, and sent the lower unit back to me. I got it apart myself, and in the end did all the work myself with parts from Dixie Bearings, but their advice was critical. I think the fellow I dealt with there was Pedro Malax if my memory serves. They, in the end, were much more helpful that Profurl.

My upper unit no longer slides easily on the foil. So far, by bending the upper unit's tang to improve the alignment, I can ease its propensity to stick on the foil. So, the repair is for the time being low on my ever increasing list of boat jobs.

Bill
I too have 31. Which makes it a 31mm foil. So finding the swivel bushing kit will be hard. NC, LC 32s are a 32mm foils and swivel bushing kits are available...What a pain
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