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Old 18-07-2018, 12:19   #1
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Profulr link arms what A PITA

I am in the process of assembling the new rig. I ran into a problem with profurl.
I have N31 (small) on inner forestay and LC42 on the head stay.

N31 drum is such that the only way to have link arms reach the toggle pin is to have turnbuckle almost all the way in(closed). This is because link arms are just not long enough. At the 2/3 open position turnbuckle is protruding into the drum and there is interference inside the drum.
I was able to swap the turnbuckle for a Hi-mod unit that has a smaller diameter body, so I got a bit more room, however the swagged stud is now hitting whatever else is in the drum.

Rigger specified the standard lengths of stays with turnbuckles 2/3 open and used that to match the old pin-pin length. I am putting sta-locks at the top so i have the opportunity to adjust where I cut.


In pics i'm showing original setting and you can see that turnbuckles were almost all the way closed. Last photo shows with turnbuckle 2/3 or more open, swage stud and upper end of turnbuckle would be protruding into the drum. This is not the issue with the LC42 as the drum is fairly large. But is the issue with N31.



Ill have to

1. Adjust the cutting location for sta-lock so that pin-pin dimensions is matched with turnbuckles probably more than 1/2 closed.

2. That leaves me a lot less room for screw-ups and adjusting the stretch in (1x19) wire.

3. At the top, the so-called patented halyard wrap stop is in the way now and I'll have to cut off some of the foil. and looking at that, I will have to unroll both of the Inner forestay sails to see how to adjust the little wire rope extension and links the head of the sail to the top furling swivel.



How is anyone else dealing with link arms of profurl and turnbuckle interference?
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Old 18-07-2018, 13:00   #2
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Re: Profulr link arms what A PITA

I absolutely feel your pain with mine NC 32, having to turn very small amounts every time I need to tune the rig. But mine was already on the boat when I bough it...

To tune the rig this year I loosened the backstay and used 2 halyards connected to the bow plate to hold the mast up, then disconnected the furler/forestay and turned the (now freed) turnbuckles a few turns. Then took up on the backstay to tighten the forestay. Kind of trial and error, but hopefully we won't have to do it very often.
In your case with a new wire already cut, you have to adjust as you mentioned. Pay attention and mount correctly the black thing at the top (wrap stop) - a critical piece.
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Old 18-07-2018, 16:10   #3
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Re: Profulr link arms what A PITA

Your set-up doesn't look right. That toggle fitting in the end of the turnbuckle shouldn't be there. You should just have a fork and the Pro Furl pin with the steps should go through that and the other toggle and then the links.
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Old 18-07-2018, 17:19   #4
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Re: Profulr link arms what A PITA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecos View Post
Your set-up doesn't look right. That toggle fitting in the end of the turnbuckle shouldn't be there. You should just have a fork and the Pro Furl pin with the steps should go through that and the other toggle and then the links.
Ecos, not sure if I understand... which picture are you referring to?
My set up is the same as his for the bottom piece - the second top picture from the left.
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Old 18-07-2018, 17:26   #5
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Re: Profulr link arms what A PITA

That setup definitely doesn't look right. there should be no toggle on the turnbuckle itself. Its a pain but you should switch the bottom part of the turnbuckle for one with just an eye. In that picture there are 2 toggles. you only need 1.
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Old 18-07-2018, 17:57   #6
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Re: Profulr link arms what A PITA

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcmm View Post
That setup definitely doesn't look right. there should be no toggle on the turnbuckle itself. Its a pain but you should switch the bottom part of the turnbuckle for one with just an eye. In that picture there are 2 toggles. you only need 1.
You may be right, but the "extension" (lower toggle) should not be a problem.
I may learn something here, check this link and scroll down to see the pictures and the write up on this.
I was not able to see clear Profurl instructions on how to properly install the toggle and extension arms.

https://www.sailingindra.com/initial...nding-rigging/
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Old 18-07-2018, 18:04   #7
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Re: Profulr link arms what A PITA

The toggle is not the problem, I have to use one too since the 'chainplate'/stemhead on the bow is not in line with the boat but perpendicular, between sb and port bow roller.
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Old 18-07-2018, 18:09   #8
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Re: Profulr link arms what A PITA

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeaseOnLife View Post
The toggle is not the problem, I have to use one too since the 'chainplate'/stemhead on the bow is not in line with the boat but perpendicular, between sb and port bow roller.
The lower toggle is not the issue, its the "upper" toggle that is burried between the plates. without that toggle there would be an extra 2 inches of space for the turnbuckle allowing you to have more adjustability.

If you look on page 13 here, you'll see that the turnbuckle uses an eye at the bottom end not a toggle. your system is assembled incorrectly.

http://www.profurl.com/images/info_p...c-elite-44.pdf
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Old 19-07-2018, 02:42   #9
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Re: Profulr link arms what A PITA

Hi,
I could not see in your photos if you have a turnbuckle cylinder. If you don't, that could be the problem.
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Old 19-07-2018, 16:29   #10
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Re: Profulr link arms what A PITA

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcmm View Post
That setup definitely doesn't look right. there should be no toggle on the turnbuckle itself. Its a pain but you should switch the bottom part of the turnbuckle for one with just an eye. In that picture there are 2 toggles. you only need 1.
A special machined pin goes through the turnbuckle eye. The links connect on either side to this pin. Links are smaller diameter than the eye.
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Old 19-07-2018, 17:23   #11
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Re: Profulr link arms what A PITA

This is a C290 model but this is now the turnbuckle should be setup

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Old 20-07-2018, 08:03   #12
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Re: Profulr link arms what A PITA

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeaseOnLife View Post
The toggle is not the problem, I have to use one too since the 'chainplate'/stemhead on the bow is not in line with the boat but perpendicular, between sb and port bow roller.

Thanks, this is all very helpfull. As I digest the replies, I am seeing that this can be done a lot more elegantly.



Part of the problem is that the original eye was welded onto the toggle. Yet another head scratcher coming out of a Taiwanese yard. See pic. Rigger replaced the setup but i believe I have an extra toggle there. I.e not welded, its hyan turnbuckle. I hope I can remove it. Have to check. If not i guess i need to swap toggle fork screw for eye screw.

Luckily, i have plenty of wire rope at the top, not yet cut to compensate for removal of toggle if that turns out to be possible....

Inner forestay chainplate pin is oriented along the length of the boat requiring 90 degree turn tho which as I digest your replies, should not be a problem.
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Old 20-07-2018, 08:28   #13
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Re: Profulr link arms what A PITA

Quote:
Originally Posted by phorvati View Post
Thanks, this is all very helpfull. As I digest the replies, I am seeing that this can be done a lot more elegantly.



Part of the problem is that the original eye was welded onto the toggle. Yet another head scratcher coming out of a Taiwanese yard. See pic. Rigger replaced the setup but i believe I have an extra toggle there. I.e not welded, its hyan turnbuckle. I hope I can remove it. Have to check. If not i guess i need to swap toggle fork screw for eye screw.

Luckily, i have plenty of wire rope at the top, not yet cut to compensate for removal of toggle if that turns out to be possible....

Inner forestay chainplate pin is oriented along the length of the boat requiring 90 degree turn tho which as I digest your replies, should not be a problem.

Looks like all you really need to do is swap out the bottom portion of the turnbuckle with this part.

https://www.marineoutfitters.ca/inde...e=BW%20021906A

and you'll need to replace the bottom toggle with this part:

https://www.marineoutfitters.ca/inde...de=BW%20250016

That will open up the turnbuckle and may solve some of your problems. Some foils can have the drum lifted up (my harken ESP unit can do this) to provide a bit more space to work the turnbuckle
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Old 20-07-2018, 19:57   #14
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Re: Profulr link arms what A PITA

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcmm View Post
Looks like all you really need to do is swap out the bottom portion of the turnbuckle with this part.

https://www.marineoutfitters.ca/inde...e=BW%20021906A

and you'll need to replace the bottom toggle with this part:

https://www.marineoutfitters.ca/inde...de=BW%20250016

That will open up the turnbuckle and may solve some of your problems. Some foils can have the drum lifted up (my harken ESP unit can do this) to provide a bit more space to work the turnbuckle

Yes and Yes, thanks for posting direct links to specific parts.

Since I paid the rigger 12K for new rig, it is really his obligation to get it right. I am bringing the parts to him on monday and he will deal with it.

Small potential issues is with the width of the double jaw toggle. I highlighted the dimension in picture below. Standard double jaw toggle with 5/8" pin is too wide. That would be for my case. This is because that special profurl pin with threaded ends for link arms, is only so wide and you would end up with link arms riding on threads of that pin. Might be ok since it only supports the furler.

I think 1/2" pin double jaw toggle is good but I am not downsizing pins. Perhaps profulr might have the right toggle.
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Old 24-07-2018, 13:27   #15
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Re: Profulr link arms what A PITA

boy was he pissed when i brought the stuff back. Riggers dont like to go fishing....i.e trying to make things fit. So what we ended up doing is using a double jaw toggle that is 1/2" on top and 5/8" on the bottom. The 1/2" side had to be pressed so that 5/8" pin fits flush. The 5/8" pin is used to attach to chainplate. I think my problem is that N31 might not be suitable for my inner forestay. That might be why lower unit cannot be slid down over the turnbuckle stud, even if i remove the turnbuckle. My head stay is LC42 and it has 7/16 wire and 3/4" pins. That lower unit can slide over the turnbuckle stud. Perhaps I could have went with 1/2" turnbuckles and pins. 1/2" pin hardware is available for 5/16"(8mm) wire and I bet N31 lower unit will slide over the screws.
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