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Old 11-07-2014, 22:22   #1
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Preventing Overriding Turns on Jib Roller Furling Drums

I just experienced overriding turns on the genoa roller drum for the first time, preventing the sail from being furled and resulting in an embarrasing and potentially dangerous situation. I know this was caused by too much slack in the furling line when the sail was last unfurled. But it is a difficult pain in the arse to keep proper tension in both the sheet and furling line when the sail is being unrolled as this requires them to simultantaneously pull against each other. Is there another technique or a better jib roller furling design that prevents this drum overriding from happening?
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Old 11-07-2014, 22:29   #2
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Re: Preventing Overriding Turns on Jib Roller Furling Drums

Tension on the furling line is crucial to prevent a rats nest from forming.

I let the the furling line slide through my hand WHILE WEARING GLOVES. In big winds I will put a loose wrap around a winch.

The wind should unfurl the sail for you after a bit of it is out. Try unfurling on a deep reach - up to beam reach.

Watch the lead angle to the furler drum. That might need adjusting.
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Old 11-07-2014, 23:51   #3
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Re: Preventing Overriding Turns on Jib Roller Furling Drums

That's one reason I'm looking forward to
installing one of these, continuous line
roller furler:
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Old 12-07-2014, 01:36   #4
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Re: Preventing Overriding Turns on Jib Roller Furling Drums

We do the same as jack dale. Yes it's a problem if you don't keep some tension on. Continuous line furlers are more suited to dinghy than cruising yachts. There not practical for large sails in any breeze, can't be locked off safely and can't be led to a winch.
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Old 12-07-2014, 01:37   #5
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Re: Preventing Overriding Turns on Jib Roller Furling Drums

Even if you have spooled it on tightly the problem can occur at times. It is worst when broad reaching, when the headsail momentarily collapses. This can spin the foil, loosening the turns, then tangling them, or jambing them in the guard. Had this happen once on a furlex. Very awkward to fix due to the fully enclosed drum.

I now always have at least half a wrap on the sail in these conditions to reduce the chance of any problems. And roll the headsail mostly away if its behind the main, keeping a tight sheet.

I have also heard of people using bungy to stop this happpening, by keeping some tension on the line.
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Old 12-07-2014, 02:34   #6
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Re: Preventing Overriding Turns on Jib Roller Furling Drums

Not certain why, but I never have furler drum tangle and don’t keep resistance on the furling line when it goes out. One thing not yet mentioned is the importance of having a fair lead with the furling line at the drum.
-Furling line should exit the drum parallel to the top/bottom surfaces of the drum. If not then line will bunch up on one side and can make a mess.
-Furling line should also be a fair run to the first block on the pulpit or rail. No rubbing on part of the drum (except if through a drum line guide) or pulpit because that can deflect the line causing same problem as above.
As for continuous line furler more suited to dinghies than cruising yachts – that’s simply wrong. Continuous line furlers are perfectly suited, preferred even, for code sails / screechers and staysails (with free flying luff) on just about any sized yacht.
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Old 12-07-2014, 03:06   #7
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Re: Preventing Overriding Turns on Jib Roller Furling Drums

Mirror16,

This may be an issue for practice. If the lead to the drum is correct, then only slight tension on the furler line will make it roll up neatly as you unfurl the sail. So, you got one arm for the winch handle for the self-tailer for the sheet, and the other for the furler, what's the prob? Oh? no self tailer?

Okay, now you need to double task with one of your hands. Remember jackdale saying wear gloves? Do that. Okay, your cranking hand is going to do double duty, it's going to pause and slack as it cranking, and that'll get you there. Soon it won't even be something you think about, just how you do it, but you will have to practice. Your body'll give you lots of feedback. But at least while you're learning, wear the gloves (even cheap leather gardening gloves will protect your hands).

Have fun.

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Old 12-07-2014, 03:15   #8
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Re: Preventing Overriding Turns on Jib Roller Furling Drums

What the others have said.
On a beam reach to deep reach, you are not too worried about the sail flogging as if close hauled. Pull out a bit of genoa then allow the wind to unwind the rest while you concentrate on keeping a bit of tension on the furling line as it winds on the drum.
I manage single handed on a 47' boat with a 150% genoa.
If need be, let out some head sail, keep a bit of tension on the fueling line. Then stop off the furling line, sheet in a bit, then repeat until the required amount of genoa is out.

There are some ratchet type turning blocks on the market which you lead a furling line through which help keep some tension on the line, but
then that's more expense.
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Old 12-07-2014, 04:14   #9
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Re: Preventing Overriding Turns on Jib Roller Furling Drums

Quote:
Originally Posted by svTOTEM View Post
]As for continuous line furler more suited to dinghies than cruising yachts – that’s simply wrong. Continuous line furlers are perfectly suited, preferred even, for code sails / screechers and staysails (with free flying luff) on just about any sized yacht.[/SIZE][/FONT]
having had both systems on board our 40' cruising cat thats the opposite of our experience. Why would you think a single line furler would be suitable for a cruising yacht except in light winds? As I mentioned quickly, the downsides are
not being able to run the line to a winch
the lines come off the drum easily requiring them to be re-threaded
they cant be cleated off securely (you can cleat them but no guarantee they wont slip in the drum)
the line needs to be pulled at the right angle or it will fall off the drum (the angle usually requires laying on the deck to pull)
Are there any benefits to the continuous line system? None that I can see..
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Old 12-07-2014, 04:31   #10
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Re: Preventing Overriding Turns on Jib Roller Furling Drums

One thing is check your winch angle - turns are more likely when the winch is NOT angled aright. The shortcut is to place a strategic leading block in exactly the right position.

Stage two is make sure your winching technique is aright. Sometimes we get into trouble when trying to tail from an awkward place.

OR else

get a selftailer

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Old 12-07-2014, 05:24   #11
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Re: Preventing Overriding Turns on Jib Roller Furling Drums

When I run out my Genoa I then close the jamb cleat and pull the slack out of it.
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Old 12-07-2014, 07:29   #12
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Re: Preventing Overriding Turns on Jib Roller Furling Drums

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
When I run out my Genoa I then close the jamb cleat and pull the slack out of it.
+1

I also throw a wrap (of furling line) on the winch. I don't like the genoa to go willy-nilly till the sail flies out and "snaps" the forestay/foil. I like a nice controlled release of the sail.

Actually on my boat I usually have the tiller between my legs, steering just off head to wind. The furling line runs in my left hand between forefinger and thumb. While I am using overhand pulls (both hands) to sheet the genoa. The furling line pays out and just squeezing my hand slows the genoa release.

While I don't favor "paying out" any lines though hands, this is one place it's hard to avoid and have any kind of control.

Furling is the opposite. Keeping the genoa sheet with some "friction" on it while I double overhand the furling line.

Of course this is a 26 foot boat - You big boys probably need at least the AP steering although my method works up to at least a 36 foot boat. Unless of course you can't physically pull the line loads.
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Old 12-07-2014, 19:07   #13
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Re: Preventing Overriding Turns on Jib Roller Furling Drums

Monte – with problems you describe, perhaps the design of your furler is not so good? A continuous line furler is a great way to manage some free flying luff sails (code zero/screecher/staysail). I know of many boats with them, and set up a number of code zero/continuous lines furlers, and they all say it’s a great combination. Earlier this year I helped a Payne 62 setup, and they’ve since crossed the Indian Ocean and report that the combination was awesome. I was out a couple weeks ago on a 50’ cat sailing with a big screecher and the furler worked beautifully.

Like all things on a boat, continuous line furlers can be finicky. There are tricks with sailing angle and line tensions that help. Also Selden, maybe others(?), make a product for use with continuous line furlers. I don’t know much about it except it (the people I know with it love it) has 2 blocks with mechanism that manage line tension off of the furler.

Sorry for the OP drift.
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Old 12-07-2014, 19:16   #14
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Re: Preventing Overriding Turns on Jib Roller Furling Drums

Query: Are there any single line furlers with sufficient grip on the line to allow partial reefing of a large headsail (not a code zero sort of thing)? It was my understanding that this was not so, and I'd be interested to find that I was wrong.

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Old 12-07-2014, 19:19   #15
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Re: Preventing Overriding Turns on Jib Roller Furling Drums

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
+1

I also throw a wrap (of furling line) on the winch. I don't like the genoa to go willy-nilly till the sail flies out and "snaps" the forestay/foil. I like a nice controlled release of the sail.
+1 Always unfurl under control.
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