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Old 14-02-2016, 18:41   #106
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Re: Preventer Rigging?

Regarding where the shock cord chafing on it's boom exit, one simply uses a Through-Deck block Harken AKA, another one of them "racing" carry over items.

The reasoning behind having the bungee be 1.5x the boom's length, is to extend it's lifespan as much as possible. For the lesser percentage of it's length which it has to stretch, the longer it lives.
But yes, it's semi-disposable. Albeit, between the length #s, & it's living inside of the boom, out of degradation via UV, it'd easily live a couple of years between changes.

As, for instance, we did a setup to keep the runners out of the way/make them semi-self tending, on a 50'er in SoCal. And the bungee lasted for the 3 years that I was onboard & then some. And we sailed her so much that the Post Office gave her her own zipcode, so that I could get my mail there

That said; a messenger line type system, inside of the boom would likely work too. Though on many boats, real estate for blocks & lines, is scarce @ the gooseneck, & the base of the mast.
Ditto on their contributing to clutter at the cabin house's aft end, if there are many lines of substance, which are already led aft. Depends on the boat I suppose.

Regarding the Leaders possibly getting lost in the folds of a reefed main, such is part of why I figure that they should hang down a bit. Especially given the height of his boom.
Though, in truth, I'm still a fan off them being rigged in another manner entirely. but some folks seem to be overly shy, when it comes to leaving the cockpit.
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Old 14-02-2016, 18:57   #107
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Re: Preventer Rigging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
Why the preventer at the end of the boom and not a bit more towards the middle where the angle will be better?

I use a very simple set up similar to the one you described at the opening post but I have the luck of having cleats with an interior space that allows a line to be passed there, so no problems regarding snapping.

I don't use the winches for the preventer. The line passes from the boom (just a bit aft the spraywood-I have a big boom) to the middle cleat to the back cleat. I use also the back cleat, with more or less turns around to jibe the boat alone when the wind is strong. For that I have to lower the sprayhood, that is normally down anyway when I sail upwind, anyway it takes 1m to put it down (or up).

But I have a mast with spreaders angled aft and for not ruining the mainsail I limit the angle of the mainsail. With another type of rig that allows a bigger angle on the mainsail I doubt my system works due to the life lines on the way of the preventer.

I have the lines permanently rigged and they are also useful when there is very light winds but big waves or choppy seas, acting as stabilizer and not allowing the boom to move around with the boat's movements.
The reasoning behind having the preventer lines on the boom's outboard end, is because if a heavy load comes onto them, & they're connected to the middle of the boom, you may bend it.
Much as can happen if you dip it into the water at speed, & there isn't a mechanisim or way, to easily release the vang, or a mid boom preventer.

Your facility for being able to use your preventers in order to jibe the boom in a controlled fashion, is a smart one. And one that many would be wise to emulate.
However, the need for such often isn't forseen, until a crew's had a bad experience or three with such circumstances.
Ditto on being able to fully stabilize the boom when the wind's light, & the seas are sloppy.
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Old 14-02-2016, 20:08   #108
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Re: Preventer Rigging?

We run double preventers. When a shackle for one of the main sheet blocks burst in the middle of the night, the preventers stabilized the boom while we worked out a lashing to replace the broken shackle. Useful.

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Old 15-02-2016, 01:04   #109
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Re: Preventer Rigging?

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Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
Make your Leaders so that they're roughly half of the length of the boom, & so that their tails hang overtop of the cockpit, within easy reach when they're not in use. With their attachment points to the boom, being at the boom's aft end.

Then, inside of the boom, affix a length of shock cord for each Leader, just aft of the gooseneck. And from there, run it back to the boom's mid-point. Where it exits on the Port & Starboard sides. And the bungee/shock cords, are connected to the Leader lines there.

Thus, when a Leader line is in use, the bungee gives it the freedom to move away from the boom's side, & to be connected to the other half of the Preventer, on that side of the boat.
And when a Leader isn't in use, the bungee will pull it up against the boom's side. With the tail of the Leader hanging only low enough for easy reach while standing in the cockpit/on the cockpit's seats. But not hanging down low enough so that it could strike folks in the head.

The only caveat to this, is that to get the requisite stretch out of the bungee, & have it maintain a reasonable lifespan, you may need a longer run/length of bungees.
For instance: Run a length of it inside of the boom, from a fixed point at the boom's aft end, then through a small block near the gooseneck (while still inside of the boom). And then back to the exit holes in the boom's sides, where it then attaches to the Leaders.
There's one (now) obvious drawback to this setup. And it's that at a certain range of wind speeds & wind angles, the loose ends of the Leaders will be whipped about by the wind until there's no paint left on the boom.
To say nothing of anyone who gets too close to them. And this would likely be the case even if they were stiffened up by slipping sections of hose overtop of the lines.

So we're back to no free lunch again. It's either have them secured tightly up against the boom, or...
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Old 15-02-2016, 01:09   #110
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Re: Preventer Rigging?

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Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
It's either have them secured tightly up against the boom,
or...
Just have one and swap it over after the gybe.
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Old 15-02-2016, 01:51   #111
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Re: Preventer Rigging?

conachair,

You can have double preventers rigged all the time, and then you do all the gybing from the cockpit, not having to relocate the preventer.

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Old 15-02-2016, 03:51   #112
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Re: Preventer Rigging?

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
conachair,

You can have double preventers rigged all the time, and then you do all the gybing from the cockpit, not having to relocate the preventer.

Ann
How do you do that?
On my boat having the unused one connected all the time is too messy with the line across the cockpit, so with a short line on the boom I just swap them over from the cockpit when gybing. Works a treat, singlehanded.
I have the preventers rigged all the time, but out of the way at the toe rail. Terminating onto a cleat, then to tension I let the boom out a bit too far, cleat off the preventer and sheet in a touch. Fantastic in light airs, add the topping lift (which also leads to the cockpit) and the boom is locked in place.
Though that's not on a big boat like all the very rich folks round here have can't see it would be that much different.
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Old 15-02-2016, 05:25   #113
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Re: Preventer Rigging?

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
conachair,

You can have double preventers rigged all the time, and then you do all the gybing from the cockpit, not having to relocate the preventer.

Ann
I'm kind of curious as to how this works too. What with having at least a couple of headsail sheets per side, with a minimum of 1-3 of them being in use on the same side of the boat as the preventer.
Specifically; Kite or Code 0, Genoa, Solent or Staysail, Foreguy, plus a few optional others.
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Old 15-02-2016, 07:15   #114
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Re: Preventer Rigging?

We had the "outboard part" of our preventer lines permanently rigged (when we went to sea). The were designed so they could also be used as outboard (toerail) sheets for the jibs. They came back along the toerail, run thru a clutch and their own turning block (both mounted on the toerail). I have some photos, we are in key west at the moment without my photo computer, but will it them up when I get back home.

Yea, we did have a lot of lines rigged on passage, because we also had staysail sheets perminanently rigged, and jack lines, plus (downwind) spin/pole lines. Hawk had 5 turning blocks each side.

Occasionally we would leave both preventers hooked to their boom leads, if we thought we would be joining back and forth a bunch, especially in bumpy conditions. But our normal practice was to clean up the prior preventer after each jibe. That just seemed like good seamanship.

On reflection . . . . Shock cord probably better than I gave it credit for in my post above . . . Our spin sheet blocks were held up with shock cord and it lasted adequately well. These were not stretched very far . . . So not all that much of a test . . . But still probably better in actual fact/experience than in my memory.
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Old 15-02-2016, 11:36   #115
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Re: Preventer Rigging?

We have permanently rigged preventers. They use a two part purchase block attached to the boom at about 3/4 from gooseneck. They lead to another Becket block on a large pad eye just aft of the shroud chain plate. The tail leads to a stopper at the side of the cockpit outer coaming.

This setup provides a great angle to reduce pressure on the gooseneck and it allows the preventers to be easily set from the cockpit. Also, they serve most of the function of a vang. Every time I see long and complex preventers then look at ours I wonder why it has to be so hard.
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Old 15-02-2016, 17:51   #116
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Re: Preventer Rigging?

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Originally Posted by neelie View Post
I have never used a boom brake. But it's occurred to me that a boom brake set for maximum resistance would keep the boom fixed in position in light airs.

If this is true then the argument for a dedicated preventer set-up becomes less compelling. Especially as they come with the advantage of not needing extra lines and walks to the mast to reset preventers for the opposite gybe.

Anecdotally, boom brakes do a good job of controlling the energy in any gybe. Thus it is entirely plausible that they can replace preventers.
We are going to install a Dutchman on our boat this May.
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Old 15-02-2016, 21:42   #117
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Re: Preventer Rigging?

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We are going to install a Dutchman on our boat this May.
I really like our Walder boom brake. To "lock" the boom in position, we let the boom all the way to just against the lowers, tighten the brake fully, then pull the mainsheet in to get the boom and sail off the shrouds.

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Old 16-02-2016, 04:07   #118
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Re: Preventer Rigging?

Seeking clarity here........

Can a boom brake serve just as adequately as a preventer system?

I've put together a complete preventer system for my boat that I'm about to install, and I never thought about a boom brake as a preventer. Pros and cons?

Are any boats rigged both ways? And why, or why not?


This and threads like it are very good threads IMO. I'd like to hear from the high experience guys and gals some more.
I've been sailing for almost ten years now without either. I'm wary as hell when gybing with my end of boom sheeting on a Selden rig and know I need to do something.

If indeed a boom brake serves the same purpose, it would seem easier to use.

Thanks all for the contributions!

Not all who wonder are lost, but some of us are...
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Old 16-02-2016, 12:18   #119
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Re: Preventer Rigging?

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Seeking clarity here........

Can a boom brake serve just as adequately as a preventer system?
A Brake, & a Preventer, are 2 entirely different animals. And they do different jobs.

A Brake slows the rate at which the boom swings through during a gybe. And most such units are "tuneable" in terms of setting how fast you want them to allow the boom to swing across.

While a Preventer Fully prevents the main from gybing over, should you get caught aback (accidentally). Also, a proper Preventer can be used to ease the main over to the other side, in a controlled fashion, once you've sorted out the other bits, following an accidental gybe.

Which is quite a handy option to have in your sailing "tool box", in order to keep both the crew & the rig, damage free; post accidental gybe.

I've put together a complete preventer system for my boat that I'm about to install, and I never thought about a boom brake as a preventer. Pros and cons?
Given this, when you're deciding on the components in your Preventer, including the line. Figure out what the max load is/could ever be on both you Mainsheet, AND your Vang. Then add them together, double it (at a minimum), & use this figure to spec your components.
Also, if there will be Any knots in your preventer system, factor this in as well. Meaning, go with a line that's 2x stronger, due to the loss in strength via the knot (more if it's a high tech synthetic like Dyneema).

Are any boats rigged both ways? And why, or why not?
Some boats have both. However, I've never had a Boom Brake, nor much seen their purpose. As I simply handle the main sheet the old school way when gybing.
Grabbing it up near the boom, choking the lines together, & easing things back out, once the boom's swung through. And this is on boats up to 60'+
To me, a Brake's just one more (expensive) piece of gear to buy & rig. And more lines on deck to deal with.

Plus, I am NOT a fan of adding loads to the middle or forward third of the boom. Ergo, the standard MO for Boom Brakes.

This and threads like it are very good threads IMO. I'd like to hear from the high experience guys and gals some more.
I've been sailing for almost ten years now without either. I'm wary as hell when gybing with my end of boom sheeting on a Selden rig and know I need to do something.

If indeed a boom brake serves the same purpose, it would seem easier to use.

Thanks all for the contributions!

Not all who wonder are lost, but some of us are...
What has you spooked about gybing with end boom sheeting? Also, if I might ask, how's your mainsheet setup?
If you're stuck, descriptiveness wise, this may help Harken
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Old 16-02-2016, 12:38   #120
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Re: Preventer Rigging?

]
Quote:
Originally Posted by transmitterdan View Post
We have permanently rigged preventers. They use a two part purchase block attached to the boom at about 3/4 from gooseneck. They lead to another Becket block on a large pad eye just aft of the shroud chain plate. The tail leads to a stopper at the side of the cockpit outer coaming.

This setup provides a great angle to reduce pressure on the gooseneck and it allows the preventers to be easily set from the cockpit. Also, they serve most of the function of a vang. Every time I see long and complex preventers then look at ours I wonder why it has to be so hard.
With your setup, are there not times when some of the following lines start competing for the same Real Estate. IE: Necessitate re-rigging a preventer, & or one or more other lines, so that they aren't chafing on each other (oh, & P/S means Port/Starboard)

Code 0/Spinnaker Furling Line
Jib Furling Line
Jib Sheet #1 P/S
Jib Sheet #2 P/S (to achieve optimum lead angles)
Staysail, or Solent Sheet P/S
Jib Twings P/S (AKA Barber Haulers)
Afterguy P/S
Spin Sheet #1 P/S
Spin Sheet #2 P/S (Alternatively, Reachers, Code 0's, etc.), & or Changing Sheet
Spin Sheet Twing P/S (AKA Barber Haulers)
Running Backs/Checks Stays – P/S
Main Sheet (P/S)
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