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**Seaworthy Lass** · 12-06-2014, 09:55

I was browsing through Grogs Animated Knots (bedtime reading

) and I found two new additions: the EStar Hitch and the EStar Stopper.

Evans Starzinger briefly posted about the hitch in the middle of one of his threads early this year, but it is the first time I have seen the stopper.

The EStar Hitch is described and animated under Details of a Buntline Hitch here:
Buntline Hitch | How to tie a Buntline Hitch | Boating Knots

And the EStar Stopper can be found here:
EStar Stopper | How to tie an EStar Stopper Knot | Boating Knots

I have a query for Evans or anyone else. The animated version shows the initial clove hitch reversed in an odd way. I've never seen a Buntline started like this and the quick animation confused me to no end at first. Is the knot equally strong if the clove hitch is started by passing under the standing end when this has been taken over the top of the bar from the front, as opposed to the traditional passing it over?

In the animation of the stopper, it is shown going the traditional way.

Just curious

.
If the answer is unknown, personally I would stick with the traditional Buntline as a starting point rather than what Grog has shown

. It looks as if it would be weaker, particularly if the object it was passing around was of any significant thickness.

Anyway, for those of you who haven't seen this knot before, if tied correctly it is the most secure "easy" way known at the moment to tie a hitch using slippery Dyneema. From memory Evans reported that it did not slip, but broke at 54% of line strength. It is a very useful knot to know if you are using Dyneema on board and need to attach it reasonably securely to something in a hurry.

This is the frozen image from the animation at the step before a Buntline is extended to form the EStar. This is not like any Buntline I have seen. Has Grog shown this incorrectly?

**Seaworthy Lass** · 12-06-2014, 22:02

Can anyone with an interest in knots please take a look at this?

As unbelievable as it seems, I think Grog have stuffed up badly on their animation of the EStar Hitch.

**StuM** · 13-06-2014, 01:49

I agree with you. I've never seen a buntline passing under the standing end first. I can't think of any hitch that starts that way.

S/V Alchemy · 13-06-2014, 07:58

I'll come back for this one. Grog's is pretty influential, and if they've made an error, I'd like to know. Good eye, SL.

**Seaworthy Lass** · 13-06-2014, 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

I'll come back for this one. Grog's is pretty influential, and if they've made an error, I'd like to know. Good eye, SL.

Thanks

.

With sites (or organisations

) that generally have an excellent reputation, it is hard to believe that errors could occur.
Best to always keep an entirely open mind.

I have sent Evans a PM with a link to this thread, so hopefully he will respond soon and let us know if Grogs have got it right or wrong.

**Seaworthy Lass** · 17-06-2014, 06:19

I have not had any response from Evans, so I have posted the query in the International Guild of Yacht Tyers Forum:
Error in Grog Animated Knots animation?

I will report back here if there are any responses

.

**StuM** · 17-06-2014, 06:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

I have not had any response from Evans, so I have posted the query in the International Guild of Yacht Tyers Forum:
Error in Grog Animated Knots animation?

I will report back here if there are any responses

.

Yacht Tyers?

(I know you meant Knot)

**StuM** · 17-06-2014, 07:08

I've just looked at it again.

Flip the first frame of the animation horizontally.
Tie exactly as now shown
Look at it from the other side

It is now ABOK# 1711 as illustrated.

So Grog's animation is showing a "reversed" buntline hitch - crossing from right to left initially rather than the usual left to right. But apart from the reversal, it is a normal buntline.

**Seaworthy Lass** · 17-06-2014, 07:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by StuM

I've just looked at it again.

Flip the first frame of the animation horizontally.
Tie exactly as now shown
Look at it from the other side

It is now ABOK# 1711 as illustrated.

So Grog's animation is showing a "reversed" buntline hitch - crossing from right to left initially rather than the usual left to right. But apart from the reversal, it is a normal buntline.

I don't think reversing the clove hitch after the initial loop over the pole makes it a reversed Buntline though. That is the problem. It is not a reversed Buntline.

That is what I wrote in post #1:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

......The animated version shows the initial clove hitch reversed in an odd way. I've never seen a Buntline started like this and the quick animation confused me to no end at first. Is the knot equally strong if the clove hitch is started by passing under the standing end when this has been taken over the top of the bar from the front, as opposed to the traditional passing it over?

......It looks as if it would be weaker, particularly if the object it was passing around was of any significant thickness.

PS yes, I meant "Knot Tyers", not "Yacht Tyers" LOL

.

**Seaworthy Lass** · 17-06-2014, 08:00

I will tie the 2 versions and photograph them after I've had a swim

.
They don't produce a reversed version of same final product.

**Seaworthy Lass** · 17-06-2014, 08:05

Stu, it is great to find someone else interested in knots.

I was looking at the differences between an Alpine BB and Zeppelin and played around with a few other versions and came up with a neat looking one.

I can't find it in Ashley's or in Grogs. Any interest in looking at it for me?