Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 03-06-2018, 11:06   #1
Registered User
 
Bigjim's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Waukegan, IL
Boat: Columbia 10.7
Posts: 316
Images: 72
Pitted winch race. Any solutions?

The latest project I was working on were the winches for my 1978 Columbia 10.7. I just bought the boat and it's been sitting on the hard for probably 5 or more years.

Here's a picture of the Lewmar 44 and 34 winches:



One of the Lewmar 44s was barely turning. It took over an hour to disassemble it. But once it was open I found that the bottom bearings caked in old grease and dirt. Filthy.

It took nearly 30 minutes to drift the bearings loose but each one was incased in gunk. I soaked them overnight in Naptha and Mineral spirits and buffed each bearing with my Dremel until they were all shiny and almost new again.

I then buffed the shaft to get rid of all the dirt, tarnish and rough spots. I buffed out the inner race of the winch housing, but since the dirt was sitting in there for several years at least, the surface is badly pitted on both winches.

Is there anything I can do to fill in those pits? I'm worried that if it stays that way it'll just chew up the bearings over time. Someone told me finding replacement bearings for those winches would be tough. I haven't looked yet.

The winches are original to the boat as far as I know. The top bearings and races were much less dirty and there were no pits in the surfaces.
__________________

Bigjim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2018, 12:18   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: 5 Mile River
Boat: Bristol 41.1 Keep on Dancin'
Posts: 602
Re: Pitted winch race. Any solutions?

I have an older Lewmar 44 self tailing winch that I would make a very good deal on, if you are interested. Only problem, it is in NY state, and not sure what shipping would be. Looking for just a little more than scrap value.
__________________

keepondancin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2018, 14:37   #3
Registered User
 
Bigjim's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Waukegan, IL
Boat: Columbia 10.7
Posts: 316
Images: 72
Re: Pitted winch race. Any solutions?

One website Mauri Pro Sailing (https://www.mauriprosailing.com/us/p...yABEgLm9fD_BwE)

seems to be offering replacement bearings for the 44. I've order a set from them.

But that doesn't answer the question about the pitted drum.
Bigjim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2018, 14:52   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Lago de Izabal, Guatemala
Boat: Seafarer36c
Posts: 4,700
Re: Pitted winch race. Any solutions?

Devcon makes some repair epoxy's that can be machined. The Titanium Putty for example. At the rpm of a winch, it might work pretty well.
Ecos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2018, 15:36   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Wherever the wind takes me
Boat: Bristol 41.1
Posts: 889
Re: Pitted winch race. Any solutions?

If it's already buggered, you can't bugger it worse.


I'd definitely try to fill the pitting with a hard epoxy, and then use a cheap engine cylinder hone (Harbor Freight?) to clean up the bore.


In my opinion, aluminum winches belong only on Gran Prix boats, not on salt water cruisers.
redsky49 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2018, 16:25   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Lago de Izabal, Guatemala
Boat: Seafarer36c
Posts: 4,700
Re: Pitted winch race. Any solutions?

I think the proper way to use an epoxy filler like this will be to bead or shot blast the surface first, it's got to be clean. The idea of using a hone is interesting but how would hold the angle of the bearing race?
Ecos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-06-2018, 09:38   #7
Registered User
 
Bigjim's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Waukegan, IL
Boat: Columbia 10.7
Posts: 316
Images: 72
Re: Pitted winch race. Any solutions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigjim View Post
One website Mauri Pro Sailing (https://www.mauriprosailing.com/us/p...yABEgLm9fD_BwE)

seems to be offering replacement bearings for the 44. I've order a set from them.

But that doesn't answer the question about the pitted drum.
I received my replacement bearings but obviously Lewmar redesigned their winches and reduced the size of the central shaft. The bearings were too small. I had to send them back.

When we popped off the winch drum, the old bearings had polluted the new grease and colored the red grease, brown. We cleaned off the dirty grease and repacked the bearings. I think if I remove and repack the bearings several more times this year, I may get all the dirt out of them.
Bigjim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2018, 14:22   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 80
Re: Pitted winch race. Any solutions?

I'm far from a winch expert but a picture would help. chances are the race can be spray welded and turned pretty easily by a decent job shop type machine shop. Depending on how hard it is to setup will really dictate the price. If its aluminum spray welding probably won't be a option but I've had similar repairs machined and then anodized for about a hundred bucks after I welded them. It would've been less but I added anodizing for protection and surface hardness.

I'd definitely try a proper repair before wasting time with epoxy and if you don't have a decent shop near you I can recommend some that do mail order work.
Almost-There is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2018, 16:19   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 256
Re: Pitted winch race. Any solutions?

A good bearing supplier will measure up your bearings and likely find replacements. Some bearings are proprietary and difficult to find outside dealer. Online it looks like your bearings are all needle bearings in carriers. If the carriers are still intact you may be able to get replacement needles of correct size and fit them into your old carriers. Given a good machinist you may be able to get the bearing races turned on a lathe and use fatter needles. Measure up everything first, source the oversize bearings ahead and then deliver the lot to the machinist. Devcon epoxy can be used to resurface pitted races within limits, which you will have to get machined down as well... Lastly, find extra needles and hand pack the lot (no carrier) in place using grease. This will add to the needle count and cut down on contact forces plus span the pits in the race better.
Dymaxion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2018, 09:34   #10
Registered User
 
Bigjim's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Waukegan, IL
Boat: Columbia 10.7
Posts: 316
Images: 72
Re: Pitted winch race. Any solutions?

FYI, the bearings are still in good shape. I cleaned and buffed each needle until they were shiny again. The carriers seem to be made from plastic or a very thin metal. The lower bearings were encased in dirt and old grease, as I said.

The carriers still have some dirt in them even though I cleaned them thoroughly and soaked them in mineral spirits and solvents overnight. I'm going to keep cleaning them all summer and see about flushing them in a solvent bath at a parts store or mechanic shop. The dirt was in there so long one day and night of love will not restore them to their original state.

The winch shaft, drum and bearing carriers are straight-sided, most cars use angled bearings and races. I repacked the carriers with fresh grease. I'll post some pictures next time I take it apart.
Bigjim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2018, 10:47   #11
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 21,255
Pitted winch race. Any solutions?

Bearings and races are a matched pair, like a chain and sprockets.
They wear into each other.
However I bet your pitting is not wear, but corrosion. I canít imagine actually wearing out the bearings on a winch, think of how many millions of rotation your cars wheel bearings do, and the load they are under compared to your winch.
Iíd bet as long as you keep them clean and well lubed, they will well outlast you and the Boat.
Take mineral spirits, an air hose and a tooth brush and you can get them spotless in no time, just do not spin the bearings with the air hose, believe it or not but they can be spun fast enough to grenade and hurt you doing that.
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2018, 11:26   #12
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 5,248
Re: Pitted winch race. Any solutions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Bearings and races are a matched pair, like a chain and sprockets.
They wear into each other.
However I bet your pitting is not wear, but corrosion. I canít imagine actually wearing out the bearings on a winch, think of how many millions of rotation your cars wheel bearings do, and the load they are under compared to your winch.
Iíd bet as long as you keep them clean and well lubed, they will well outlast you and the Boat.
Take mineral spirits, an air hose and a tooth brush and you can get them spotless in no time, just do not spin the bearings with the air hose, believe it or not but they can be spun fast enough to grenade and hurt you doing that.

This.


The bearings are steel and are not be going to damaged by turning at low speed over a few corrosion pits in aluminum. So long as they do not feel rough, go sailing.


I'd put the Dremel away. High speed buffing is more likely to do harm than good. Any small bits of varnish will dissolve in the fresh grease and come off next time you clean them, perhaps in the fall (it can be a very quick cleaning).
__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2018, 19:40   #13
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 21,255
Re: Pitted winch race. Any solutions?

The races are aluminum?
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2018, 07:33   #14
Registered User
 
Bigjim's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Waukegan, IL
Boat: Columbia 10.7
Posts: 316
Images: 72
Re: Pitted winch race. Any solutions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
The races are aluminum?
Probably or some alloy. The drums are too light to be steel. Probably from the late 70s, original to the boat. Lewmar England 44s
Bigjim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2018, 07:38   #15
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 21,255
Pitted winch race. Any solutions?

Assuming if your really concerned, if there is enough meat on the drum, you could have it cut out and a properly sized steel race pressed in.
However what does the pitting cause? Can you feel it when you turn the winch?
Just may be a case of the cure being worse than the disease?
__________________

a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
race, winch

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pitted spreader ends Rhapsody-NS27 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 17 04-08-2014 09:55
Restoring Crazed and Pitted Decks Ripples Monohull Sailboats 26 05-03-2012 04:14
Marine Tex in Pitted Max-Prop ? svdate Propellers & Drive Systems 16 13-07-2011 19:32
Pitted Prop Shaft Repair ? sww914 Propellers & Drive Systems 26 03-01-2011 19:29
What to Do with a Pitted Deck Paint dubhouse Construction, Maintenance & Refit 3 06-10-2009 10:08



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:25.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.