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Old 18-05-2012, 19:51   #1
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Pennant at top or bottom ?

My new to me used foresail is shorter than the forestay. (It was the closet used sail I could find to match the required dimensions) To avoid halyard wrap, should I place the pennant between the drum and the tack, or between the head and the swivel ? Or a bit of both ?

I'd prefer to put the pennant between the drum and the tack, so as to provide greater visibility forwards, but have seen it advised to put it between the head and the swivel. If so, why ??
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Old 18-05-2012, 20:16   #2
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Re: Pennant at top or bottom ?

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Originally Posted by macbeth View Post
My new to me used foresail is shorter than the forestay. (It was the closet used sail I could find to match the required dimensions) To avoid halyard wrap, should I place the pennant between the drum and the tack, or between the head and the swivel ? Or a bit of both ?

I'd prefer to put the pennant between the drum and the tack, so as to provide greater visibility forwards, but have seen it advised to put it between the head and the swivel. If so, why ??

TRUST ME on this -- put a halyard restraint on your mast!!
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Old 18-05-2012, 20:21   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macbeth
My new to me used foresail is shorter than the forestay. (It was the closet used sail I could find to match the required dimensions) To avoid halyard wrap, should I place the pennant between the drum and the tack, or between the head and the swivel ? Or a bit of both ?

I'd prefer to put the pennant between the drum and the tack, so as to provide greater visibility forwards, but have seen it advised to put it between the head and the swivel. If so, why ??
How short is it? What is the shape of the foot?

I would lean towards the pennant at the bottom. I forget the exact numbers but the lead angle of the halyard to the upper sheave should be like 30 degrees. A small angle (lower sail) could reduce the angle too much increasing chance of wrap.

Aesthetically if this puts a 3 foot gap at the foot it might look really weird.

Finally the air is usually "cleaner" the higher you go so raising the sail some isn't really a bad thing. As you note it also improves visibility under the sail to the lee bow.

The argument for a low sail to me is primarily if the genny has a flat foot and you want a "deck" sweeper. Some would argue reducing the slot between foot and deck captures the pressure better. With the drum at the bottom you'll never seal it up anyway so probably a non issue.

I'd google for a manual for your furler and check the recommended lead angle of the halyard. This is the defining parameter for me.
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Old 19-05-2012, 19:29   #4
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Re: Pennant at top or bottom ?

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
TRUST ME on this -- put a halyard restraint on your mast!!
Sorry, not feasible - I'd have to get someone to climb to the top of the mast, and I don't know anyone who would want to do that, and I don't want to have to pay for it, and I don't see it as necessary if I put a pennant in the right place.
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Old 19-05-2012, 21:11   #5
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Re: Pennant at top or bottom ?

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
TRUST ME on this -- put a halyard restraint on your mast!!
If the combination of pennants has raised the upper swivel to the top of the forestay, then this is not necessary at all. So, I guess that I don't trust you on this.

But another factor not yet mentioned is that you need to have the clew at a height that will allow a proper lead angle to your existing fairleads, and this will depend on the specific cut of the sail and the dimensions of your vessel.

Cheers,

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Old 19-05-2012, 21:32   #6
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Originally Posted by Jim Cate

If the combination of pennants has raised the upper swivel to the top of the forestay, then this is not necessary at all. So, I guess that I don't trust you on this.

But another factor not yet mentioned is that you need to have the clew at a height that will allow a proper lead angle to your existing fairleads, and this will depend on the specific cut of the sail and the dimensions of your vessel.

Cheers,

Jim
Good point. Also if raising the lower drum the furling line lead angle could be an issue. Both issues sortable.
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Old 20-05-2012, 05:02   #7
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Re: Pennant at top or bottom ?

I was told by a sail loft to put the pennant at the head of the jib. He said the tack could pull out of the foil if you put the pennant on the tack. I assume the reason is that the loads are in line with the leech and the foot, so the load is more nearly perpendicular to the tack in the foil

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Old 20-05-2012, 05:55   #8
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Re: Pennant at top or bottom ?

A halyard restrainer is designed and installed to change the angle of the halyard to be different than the headstay angle.
Typically, if the halyard swivel is greater than about 6 inches from the halyard sheave, there is a large possibility the halyard will wrap, and cause problems with the roller furler. Hence, installing a pennant between the sail head & the swivel will reduce the distance between the swivel & the halyard sheave.

HARKEN explains restrainers here ➥ http://www.harken.com/pdf/4410.pdf

“... Halyard Restrainers are used if the angle between halyard and headstay is less than 7°. This is common on masts where the halyard sheave is very close to headstay.
If halyard angle is greater than 7° (or 10°), and halyard is wrapping, a halyard restrainer may not be necessary. The halyard swivel must be near the top of foils, and headstay must be tight. This will prevent halyard wraps in most cases.
As always, consult your furling instruction manual...”

See also ➥ Preventing Halyard Wrap
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Old 20-05-2012, 06:21   #9
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Re: Pennant at top or bottom ?

I've always put the pennant at the top. The only arguments for putting it at the bottom is that you will catch less waves in the sail and have better visibility. The top position is more efficient (less heeling and more end-plate), and, as suggested by the sailmaker, you really need the tack fitting attached to the furler to take the horizonal sheet loads.

With a proper length pennant, halyard wrap should not be a problem.
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Old 20-05-2012, 23:35   #10
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Re: Pennant at top or bottom ?

What make is the furler? I know that Profurl have a "wrap stop" which takes away the need for a halyard restrainer and is designed for a halyard coming at no/very little angle.
If you put the tack up, it is usually a good idea to put a line around the foil at the tack to stop the luff coming free.
Good luck
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Old 20-05-2012, 23:49   #11
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Re: Pennant at top or bottom ?

As Gord May said, if the head of the sail or the pennant end is not real close to the upper swivel, you will get halyard wrap when you try and furl. BTDT at the dock and only got a couple of turns before I saw what was happening. Had a devil of a time and several trips up the mast getting the sail unfurled and the halyard unwrapped. Definitely wouldn't want that to happen at sea. If the sail is undersized, best to put a pennant at both ends, if only a little short, put the pennant at the bottom so the sail goes to a full hoist of the upper swivel.
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Old 21-05-2012, 04:33   #12
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Re: Pennant at top or bottom ?

As Gord May said, if the head of the sail or the pennant end is not real close to the upper swivel, you will get halyard wrap

Either the head of the sail or the pennent end is attached to the swivel - how much closer do you want to be?
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Old 21-05-2012, 04:51   #13
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Re: Pennant at top or bottom ?

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Originally Posted by david samuelson View Post
As Gord May said, if the head of the sail or the pennant end is not real close to the upper swivel, you will get halyard wrap
Either the head of the sail or the pennent end is attached to the swivel - how much closer do you want to be?
Gord actually said: "if the halyard swivel is greater than about 6 inches from the halyard sheave, there is a large possibility the halyard will wrap"

"Angle between halyard and headstay must be 7 to 10°"
See the diagram here: http://www.harken.com/pdf/4410.pdf
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Old 21-05-2012, 11:42   #14
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Re: Pennant at top or bottom ?

Thanks for all the replies. Currently, I have the sail up with a pennant at the top. As last year, I'll just add a small pennant to the tack. Worked OK. May change it next year. Not worth pulling it down now.

Interesting comments about holding the tack close to the furler. I'd noticed a tendency for it to pull away last year, and had added a tie around the furler through the tack. Worked OK. Thanks again.
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Old 21-05-2012, 11:51   #15
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Re: Pennant at top or bottom ?

Botom for sure. Better visibility, less chance of being doused by seas etc. Alot of my boats were set up this way intentionally with new sails.
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