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Old 12-02-2018, 19:29   #1
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One Jib Sheet or Two?

All my life it's been: two jib sheets, two bowlines. Now that I'm planning to replace the running rigging on Allie Cat, (Catalina 30 MKII), I have become aware of using just a single sheet to perform the same function.

Specifications:
Diameter: 7/16"
Length: 80'
Construction: Double braid continuous strand line without mill splices
Fiber: Dacron Polyester cover, w/ Polyester core
Stretch: Very low stretch
Color: White

I plan to attach the sheets using a soft shackle as described here
https://www.thoughtco.com/attach-jib...hackle-2915412

Open for discussion please. (What would you do if this was your boat?)
I think the above has the following advantages:
  • No hard shackles
  • Does not require cutting a line
  • A cow hitch can become unsecure/slip under assymetrical loads

Thanks!
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Old 12-02-2018, 19:33   #2
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Re: One Jib Sheet or Two?

^^ A cow hitch generally does not slip, but it is easy to secure with a seizing.

I would try this first, before you cut the line.
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Old 12-02-2018, 19:58   #3
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Re: One Jib Sheet or Two?

Dear Thinwater,
Sorry I wasn't clear, but not cutting the line is one of the main reasons for implementing this type of configuration, (plus, I think its neat). I was too succinctly pointing out that I had considered a cow hitch and then came across the soft shackle and decided the soft shackle was the superior solution. My dogs can read my mind but they are terrible editors.
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Old 12-02-2018, 20:58   #4
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Re: One Jib Sheet or Two?

While sheets are often attached with soft shackles, the method you display is usually called a toggle... and it has been around forever. Works ok, too, but be sure that the bulk of the eye plus the toggle is really too big to go through the cringle. It will shrink down a bit under the big loads applied in strong winds, and if not adequately sized, it will pull through. Please don't ask how I know this to be true!

There have been many instructional threads here on CF relating to the construction and usage of real soft shackles. A bit of serching will bring you hours of interesting reading. I love the damn things, and use them extensively on our boat, including attaching jib sheets.

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Old 12-02-2018, 21:00   #5
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Re: One Jib Sheet or Two?

I want to see some finish product picks. IMHO, it seems like an over complication for a knot. I hear where you are coming from though, I have tapered and tricked out lines on my boat so I get the desire. Reality it just doesn't make a difference but if you feel better than what the heck. Whats the worst that can happen?
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Old 12-02-2018, 21:04   #6
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Re: One Jib Sheet or Two?

...And here's a tip about searching on CF. Its regular search requires a 100% match up and is case sensitive. Therefore, for searching for idea type information, use the CF Custom Google Search, under the Search menu.

Ann
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Old 12-02-2018, 22:13   #7
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Re: One Jib Sheet or Two?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iyamwhatiyam View Post
All my life it's been: two jib sheets, two bowlines. Now that I'm planning to replace the running rigging on Allie Cat, (Catalina 30 MKII), I have become aware of using just a single sheet to perform the same function.

Specifications:
Diameter: 7/16"
Length: 80'
Construction: Double braid continuous strand line without mill splices
Fiber: Dacron Polyester cover, w/ Polyester core
Stretch: Very low stretch
Color: White

I plan to attach the sheets using a soft shackle as described here
https://www.thoughtco.com/attach-jib...hackle-2915412

Open for discussion please. (What would you do if this was your boat?)
I think the above has the following advantages:
  • No hard shackles
  • Does not require cutting a line
  • A cow hitch can become unsecure/slip under assymetrical loads

Thanks!
I use soft shackles, but only because I have dyneema sheets, and dyneema doesn't do knots well. With polyester sheets, I would just do bowlines, unless I was having trouble with the knots snagging on something.

Single sheets mean double the amount of rope to replace if you damage a section, and double the size of the hank to store and carry when the sheet is not being used. Maybe not a big deal on a smaller boat, but definitely no good on mine. Are you having trouble snagging the sheets on something? If not, then I don't see the point of going to a single sheet.

What I CAN recommend, for any size boat, is going to dyneema. For sheets, dyneema makes a big difference. Plus it's lighter and more flexible and nicer to handle.

Downside is cost, and you have to make eye splices in the ends, to take the soft shackles, which is tedious.
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Old 12-02-2018, 22:36   #8
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Re: One Jib Sheet or Two?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Single sheets mean double the amount of rope to replace if you damage a section, and double the size of the hank to store and carry when the sheet is not being used.
I use a single-length of line for my jibsheet, with a cow-hitch. When I start to get chafe, I cut the sheet in half, end-for-end the two sections, and re-tie using bowlines. So in a pinch I wouldn't need to replace the entire line, just half of it.

I have found that a cow hitch will slip under heavy load -- on a trip to and from Hawaii, we remain on starboard tack for most of the 4,500+ miles, and at the end of it the starboard sheet is a few inches shorter then the port sheet. We have stainless D-rings at the jib clew, so perhaps with a more traditional grommet the hitch wouldn't slip. I tried seizing the hitch on one trip, but the seizing came apart.
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Old 12-02-2018, 23:14   #9
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Re: One Jib Sheet or Two?

I use a single length of line as the sheets for each of my fore-sails: genoa, jib topsail, forestaysail, and storm jib.

That means the sheet for each of the fore-sails is permanently (or semi-permanently) attached to the sail. And is therefore stored, made to the clew of the sail, in its sailbag.

For the storm jib, I made a bowline through the clew grommet.

For the others, I used a slightly more symmetrical knot. That knot is a minor variation on the bowline, with the variation making it more symmetrical to port and starboard, than the bowline.

I've not found the exact knot in Ashley. Your search of Ashley may vary. I do note that Ashley gave short shift to knots with similar function, regarding them as of little utility.

The knot is included in one English dictionary (William Dwight Whitney, The Century Dictionary and Cyclopedia: An Encyclopedic Lexicon of the English Language, 1889) under the title of "capstan knot".

To cut a long story short, here you are:
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Old 13-02-2018, 00:01   #10
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Re: One Jib Sheet or Two?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iyamwhatiyam View Post
Dear Thinwater,
Sorry I wasn't clear, but not cutting the line is one of the main reasons for implementing this type of configuration, (plus, I think its neat). I was too succinctly pointing out that I had considered a cow hitch and then came across the soft shackle and decided the soft shackle was the superior solution. My dogs can read my mind but they are terrible editors.
If you are concerned with a cow-hitch slipping, use a real soft shackle (Instructions for Tying the High Strength Soft Shackle & Button Knot) between the job clew and an alpine butterfly tied in the continuous sheet. Alpine Butterfly Loop | How to tie the Alpine Butterfly Loop | Knots
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Old 13-02-2018, 03:57   #11
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Re: One Jib Sheet or Two?

Simple is best.............one piece line with cow hitch because I don't like any extra parts and/or pieces that can fail........(or that I would have to go buy someplace)
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Old 13-02-2018, 08:55   #12
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Re: One Jib Sheet or Two?

I have been using single sheets on racing boats for years because the mid sheet "loop" slides around the shrouds so much better than bowlines.

Combined with a soft shackle is makes changing sails so much easier than untying and retying bowlines.

A soft shackle is much safer that a snap shackle for the foredeck. When changing sails in a breeze it reduces dental bill (before I switched I had two incidents where my foredeck got chipped teeth from the SS shackle.
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Old 13-02-2018, 09:06   #13
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Re: One Jib Sheet or Two?

You're overthinking this. Just use a cow hitch.
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Old 13-02-2018, 09:33   #14
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Re: One Jib Sheet or Two?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iyamwhatiyam View Post
Dear Thinwater,
Sorry I wasn't clear, but not cutting the line is one of the main reasons for implementing this type of configuration, (plus, I think its neat). I was too succinctly pointing out that I had considered a cow hitch and then came across the soft shackle and decided the soft shackle was the superior solution. My dogs can read my mind but they are terrible editors.
Then the need is for the sheet to be removable?

Regular soft shackle. Not hard to learn. A knotted strop can also work and is easier to learn.

Sail Delmarva: Search results for strope
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Old 13-02-2018, 09:48   #15
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pirate Re: One Jib Sheet or Two?

Been using a single line on my boats for years.. find the centre.. push the loop through the clew then thread the ends though the loop twice.. pull tight.. feed a tail down each side.
Its self jamming and only gets tighter with use.. and no knots to smack you round the head.
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