One Jib Sheet or Two?

[JC Reefer]

Cowhitch is a Reasonable choice.

New rigging ha, Sounds like you’ll have a whole world of questions to post. Let us know how it goes.

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by JC Reefer

Cowhitch is a Reasonable choice.

Yes, but call it a Lark's Head. That's exactly the same thing, but sounds so much more nautical!

[wguinon]

We eye splice a 3' pennant into the clew cringle and then bend the pennant to the middle of the single sheet with a sheet bend. This is easy to undo even after heavy loading and reduces hangups on the shrouds while tacking. The sheet bend doesn't seem to hurt as much as metal thimbles/shackles or even double bowlines.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by wguinon

We eye splice a 3' pennant into the clew cringle and then bend the pennant to the middle of the single sheet with a sheet bend. This is easy to undo even after heavy loading and reduces hangups on the shrouds while tacking. The sheet bend doesn't seem to hurt as much as metal thimbles/shackles or even double bowlines.

While sheet bends are OK under constant load, I would NEVER use a sheet bend in that situation, especially with modern synthetic lines. A flogging sheet could well shake it loose.

[wguinon]

Never had a problem with the sheet bend using braided dacron which is not surprising since a sheet bend has the same topology as a bowline.
I have no experience with dyneema and its ilk.
Remember to tie a right hand sheet bend with both bitter ends extended from the knot on the same side. The left hand bend is less reliable.

[Sailmonkey]

I am not a fan of the cow hitch. I change furled headsails based on seasonal prevailing winds. Releasing a loaded cow hitch isn’t fun.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by wguinon

Never had a problem with the sheet bend using braided dacron which is not surprising since a sheet bend has the same topology as a bowline.
I have no experience with dyneema and its ilk.
Remember to tie a right hand sheet bend with both bitter ends extended from the knot on the same side. The left hand bend is less reliable.

The topology may be the same, but the load directions are very different.
In a bowline, the load is on three legs, in a specific direction to the knot's architecture. In a sheetbend in the middle of a sheet line, the load will only be on two legs and in a different direction in relation to the knot.

In effect, every time you tack, the "other sheet" will become the "bitter end" of the sheet line, so "both bitter ends extended from the knot on the same side" becomes meaningless.

[wguinon]

Your point about the load shifting from one sheet to the other when the jib flogs is noted, however this is true as well of many application of the bowline. For instance think of a dock line with a round turn around a piling then tied back in to the standing part with a bowline. As the vessel surges back and forth the load in the two sides of the bowline loop increases and decreases in a complimentary fashion yet the knot remains secure and you don't hear people putting the knock on the bowline.

[StuM]

It's not just me that thinks this about a sheetbend in this application.

Half the time it IS going to be serving as a LH Sheet Bend, which just about everyone, including yourself agree is "less reliable".

It is likely to be subjected to "flogging", where it repeatedly loads and unloads. This is the classic way the sheetbend comes loose. (I actually demonstrate this problem in class when I teach the Zepellin Bend as a better alternative. Tied in double braid dacron, I can often shake the knot completely out).

Here's a few other opinions on the matter:
Ashley Book of Knots. See pages 16,27 and the table on 273. On average, the SHeet Bend failed after 22.3 "jerks" (poorer than a simple Overhand Bend) and the LH form after 14.6 (poorer than a Reef Knot)

Knots3D;
The Sheet Bend is more secure than the Reef Knot but can work loose when not under load. If the tails lie on opposite sides, the knot is known as a Left-Handed Sheet Bend and the reliability is decreased.

The Sheet Bend & Double Sheet Bend
The Sheet Bend is a general utility bend valued for its simplicity yet avoided for important or severe work due to its lack of security.

And of course Wikipedia
Under even moderate load, a left-hand sheet bend will quickly slip and release completely.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by wguinon

...and you don't hear people putting the knock on the bowline.

Let me be the first then to put the knock on the bowline. No longer used in mountaineering since the advent of synthetics ( and I'm talking old-style synthetics - soon as we departed from natural fibres) because they can and do slip all the way to the bitter, bitter end. I've seen it happen with climbing rope - wouldn't have believed it otherwise. (And that was without flogging, just wasn't pulled up tight very, very carefully.)

[Askeeta]

Clove Hitch,put on to replace SS Shackle that came with boat,works fine so far,would be interested to hear any cons all the same

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Askeeta

Clove Hitch,put on to replace SS Shackle that came with boat,works fine so far,would be interested to hear any cons all the same

This thread has been dead for a couple of years.


There's one currently running on the same subject which has had about 80 posts in the last couple of weeks.


You may like to go there instead
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3288753

[Heathenly Twins]

Ive got this single sheet setup on my boat, albeit using a metal shackle, and I love it. Much better than two sheets and the knots hanging up on the stays.

Mine is...whipped? I guess is the word? Onto a teardrop shaped plastic bit in the loop where the shackle attaches. Next year I'll try it with a soft shackle as it occasionally hangs up.

If you try it and don't like it, you can just convert it to the two sheet method ����

[roverhi]

I use dedicated sheets with a Brummell splice for the two overlapping headsails on the roller furling. One sail has been on the furler for two years so it's no big thing having dedicated sheets. Keep two of the old sheets around if I should ever need them for the working or storm jib. The brummel splice doesn't hang up on the shrouds like bowline knots and can be undone if you ever wanted to take the sheet off. It's the same splice as used in exotic line but done in the middle of the line and of course no bury of the tail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t01TFlBmyQU

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by roverhi

I use dedicated sheets with a Brummell splice for the two overlapping headsails on the roller furling. One sail has been on the furler for two years so it's no big thing having dedicated sheets. Keep two of the old sheets around if I should ever need them for the working or storm jib. The brummel splice doesn't hang up on the shrouds like bowline knots and can be undone if you ever wanted to take the sheet off. It's the same splice as used in exotic line but done in the middle of the line and of course no bury of the tail.

Just for the record, a Brummell only splice is about the same strength as a knot. Without the bury it is not a splice, it is a knot with a lot of potential for internal movement. It was not designed for this purpose and there have been failures in this and similar Y-strop applications. One problem is that the knot must shift every time the direction of loading is reversed, increasing wear.