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Old 15-05-2012, 07:21   #16
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Re: Oh for Blue Sails... Double Layered Dacron?

I wonder if there could possibly be a reason why sails are white??
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Old 15-05-2012, 07:41   #17
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Re: Oh for Blue Sails... Double Layered Dacron?

Is there an issue with UV or heat caused by the darker color? Does this do anything to the Dacron?
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Old 15-05-2012, 07:52   #18
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Re: Oh for Blue Sails... Double Layered Dacron?

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Originally Posted by funjohnson View Post
Is there an issue with UV or heat caused by the darker color? Does this do anything to the Dacron?
My understanding (which may very well be incorrect) is that the colored dacron is slightly weaker than non-colored, due to what must be done to the dacron thread to take the dye, but that they are less susceptible to UV damage.

So even though the combined weight of the two layers of sailcloth are 7.6oz, I'm thinking of these as roughly equivalent to 7oz. Lighter than I was ultimately looking for, but I'll have additional layers/reinforcement added in the key areas to make up for it, to end up with truly robust offshore sails.
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Old 15-05-2012, 08:04   #19
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Re: Oh for blue sails... Double layered Dacron?

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Modern sailcloth has evolved to where there are great benefits in shape and longevity to be gained by selecting the proper material for a given application. To give these qualities away for a cosmetic appeal seems a poor choice to me.
Cheers,
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I think calling it a poor choice is the wrong way to look at it.

We sacrifice practicality on many purchases. Do we buy the Volvo because it's the safest, or do we buy the prettier, sportier car that's "safe enough"?

If we always made practical choices, what a dreary, drab world this would be.

I just ordered a complete set of tanbark sails and will gladly sacrifice a little of the sail's lifespan in order to have a beautiful boat.

The OP's decision to order blue sails is a wise investment indeed, as the rewards of having a beautiful a boat is priceless.
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Old 15-05-2012, 08:15   #20
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Re: Oh for blue sails... Double layered Dacron?

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I think calling it a poor choice is the wrong way to look at it.

We sacrifice practicality on many purchases. Do we buy the Volvo because it's the safest, or do we buy the prettier, sportier car that's "safe enough"?

If we always made practical choices, what a dreary, drab world this would be.

I just ordered a complete set of tanbark sails and will gladly sacrifice a little little of the sails lifespan in order to have a beautiful boat.

The OP's decision to order blue sails is a wise investment indeed. The rewards of believing your boat is beautiful, is priceless.
Well put.

I certainly appreciate the sentiment to "go for the best", but what is best is usually a complex combination of often opposing facets. Those who race, either seriously or casually, will have different priorities than those who cruise.

While white dacron would be slightly stronger than colored dacron, and while there are newer types of woven fabrics and laminates that are clearly superior to more traditional woven dacron sailcloth, I expect (require) my new sails to be entirely satisfactory for their intended use, if not excellent, and even up to a circumnavigation, and they will undoubtedly be far finer sails than many which have circled this globe on the wind and waves.
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Old 15-05-2012, 08:35   #21
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Re: Oh for Blue Sails... Double Layered Dacron?

Tanbark can be seen in the ocean, blue maybe not so much.
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Old 15-05-2012, 09:12   #22
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Re: Oh for Blue Sails... Double Layered Dacron?

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Originally Posted by Hannah on 'Rita T' View Post
Tanbark can be seen in the ocean, blue maybe not so much.
Tis true, tis true, and does my pirate heart good... why else would I want blue...
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Old 15-05-2012, 09:53   #23
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Re: Oh for Blue Sails... Double Layered Dacron?

What is it with boaters wanting the colors white and blue for their boats and canvas? So ubiquitous; so boring.

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Old 15-05-2012, 10:21   #24
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Re: Oh for Blue Sails... Double Layered Dacron?

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What is it with boaters wanting the colors white and blue for their boats and canvas? So ubiquitous; so boring.


Interestingly, I went through a stage where I thought I'd want other colors, and tried lots of combinations, but ultimately came back to blue and white. I think it has alot to do with blending in with, and being in harmony with, the natural colors of the sea and sky (though admittedly, given the color of the Baltic, my boat should be varying shades of dull grayish greenish brown -- so I guess it's the "ideal" natural colors ;-)
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Old 15-05-2012, 15:41   #25
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Re: Oh for Blue Sails... Double Layered Dacron?

The chemical dyes weaken the sailcloth fibers. And the dark color will absorb far more UV, further damaging the fibers faster. So yes, there's good reason for white sails.

But when one loft says "no problem" and everyone else says "no way" one has to wonder, just how good that two-ply solution is going to be.
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Old 15-05-2012, 16:02   #26
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Re: Oh for Blue Sails... Double Layered Dacron?

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OK, I understand now what you meant. This approach looks very nice, and could also be an option, but I expect also probably alot more expensive than the simple two ply dacron -- both because of more expensive materials, but also more complicated construction.

But thanks for the suggestion.
To the contrary, sails done this way would be lighter (two ply only in the areas needed, plus no need for massive reinforcements to overcome lighter build), stronger (10oz in lieu of 7.6oz where needed) and cheaper (much less cloth outweighs the extra cost of the better cloth). the construction time about the same.
But it sounds like you have committed, good luck with it and safe sailing.
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Old 16-05-2012, 07:15   #27
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Re: Oh for Blue Sails... Double Layered Dacron?

Another option presents itself from Challenge, who have a 6oz dacron in blue. They say:

Our 6.03 colored cloth weighs almost exactly 6 sailmaker's ounces. It will probably be okay for your main, mizzen and working jib sails, but definitely have good patching. A tabling (2 layers) on the leech of the main and storm jib might be a good idea and on the foot and at reef points on the main and mizzen also. It is a little light weight for your application, I would almost certainly normally recommend a 7oz cloth for this. For the genoa this cloth is fine, though.


So now I'm thinking, perhaps it would be an option to go with the 6oz dacron for the main, mizzen, jib and genoa, with "aggressive" reinforcements/construction, and look around for some used, ugly but fully servicable "heavy weather" sails (at least main and jib) when needed, but enjoying the new blue sails most of the time.

The 6oz is actually probably fine for the genoa and mizzen sails, and I anyway have a pretty hefty 70% jib that I could have a local sailmaker give some attention to, so it's really a question of the main.

Hmmmm.....
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Old 16-05-2012, 17:34   #28
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Re: Oh for Blue Sails... Double Layered Dacron?

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Another option presents itself from Challenge, who have a 6oz dacron in blue. They say:

Our 6.03 colored cloth weighs almost exactly 6 sailmaker's ounces. It will probably be okay for your main, mizzen and working jib sails, but definitely have good patching. A tabling (2 layers) on the leech of the main and storm jib might be a good idea and on the foot and at reef points on the main and mizzen also. It is a little light weight for your application, I would almost certainly normally recommend a 7oz cloth for this. For the genoa this cloth is fine, though.


So now I'm thinking, perhaps it would be an option to go with the 6oz dacron for the main, mizzen, jib and genoa, with "aggressive" reinforcements/construction, and look around for some used, ugly but fully servicable "heavy weather" sails (at least main and jib) when needed, but enjoying the new blue sails most of the time.

The 6oz is actually probably fine for the genoa and mizzen sails, and I anyway have a pretty hefty 70% jib that I could have a local sailmaker give some attention to, so it's really a question of the main.

Hmmmm.....
Much better choice than the spongy 3.8oz 2 ply. Will be fine for genoa, get the main, jib and mizzen with 2 ply leech (preferably sawtooth). You may need to use the mizzen as a hove-to sail on occasion. Using the challenge you only need a relatively small 2 ply as the cloth will only be just under spec. Good luck with it.
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Old 16-05-2012, 23:15   #29
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Re: Oh for Blue Sails... Double Layered Dacron?

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Much better choice than the spongy 3.8oz 2 ply. Will be fine for genoa, get the main, jib and mizzen with 2 ply leech (preferably sawtooth). You may need to use the mizzen as a hove-to sail on occasion. Using the challenge you only need a relatively small 2 ply as the cloth will only be just under spec. Good luck with it.
The more I think about it, the more I like this solution.

And changing out the genoa for the smaller heavy weather jib or storm jib is easy enough, since all my foresails are hank-on. Likewise, changing the mizzen sail is easily done from the safety of the cockpit. So when facing heavier weather, I can just drop the main and pack it away, and put on the heavier jib and mizzen, and not worry about blowing out the new sails.

And I'll get much better light wind performance to boot.
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Old 17-05-2012, 15:46   #30
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Re: Oh for Blue Sails... Double Layered Dacron?

You might ask the sailmake about laminating instead of just stitching to double up the layers. 3M makes some outstanding industrial adhesives, in spray cans, if they aren't set up to do laminating any other way. (And if they called 3M and asked nicely about that application, 3M would probably send them a case no charge if they followed up on the results.)
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